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Thread: Inconsistent transparent effects on Saturn games....

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    Okay, I'll bite. What does 50/50 blending mean and how does it compare to what the PS1 is doing? To me this just means that the Saturn could only make VDP1 graphics 50% transparent, as opposed to scaling the alpha level to whatever percentage.
    "... If Sony reduced the price of the Playstation, Sega would have to follow suit in order to stay competitive, but Saturn's high manufacturing cost would then translate into huge losses for the company." p170 Revolutionaries at Sony.

    "We ... put Sega out of the hardware business ..." Peter Dille senior vice president of marketing at Sony Computer Entertainment

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    Quote Originally Posted by sheath View Post
    Okay, I'll bite. What does 50/50 blending mean and how does it compare to what the PS1 is doing? To me this just means that the Saturn could only make VDP1 graphics 50% transparent, as opposed to scaling the alpha level to whatever percentage.
    Yes, and that it's always that kind of mixing, no additive blending for example (which is what makes explosions really bright in PS1 games).
    Not only that, if you use warped quads (you know, needed for 3d), the writes are doubled, and that causes the color mixing to get messed up. So not even the 50/50 blending works right.
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    I think you are talking about there being lines in the transparencies in some early Saturn games. I thought that was just a glitch relatively easily surmounted if the code was optimized. Basically it seems like you are seeing the seams of the transparent polygons as solid.
    "... If Sony reduced the price of the Playstation, Sega would have to follow suit in order to stay competitive, but Saturn's high manufacturing cost would then translate into huge losses for the company." p170 Revolutionaries at Sony.

    "We ... put Sega out of the hardware business ..." Peter Dille senior vice president of marketing at Sony Computer Entertainment

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    If the polygon is textured it's far worse than just a line.
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    Are there any obvious examples of messed up transparencies in commercial titles? Or did most titles just stick to the tried and tested dithered polys?

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    Hmm, that's right, the PS1 used pixelated textures on its 3D transparencies too. That was one of the reasons I didn't get all of the talk about the Saturn's dithered transparency until I got S-Video.
    "... If Sony reduced the price of the Playstation, Sega would have to follow suit in order to stay competitive, but Saturn's high manufacturing cost would then translate into huge losses for the company." p170 Revolutionaries at Sony.

    "We ... put Sega out of the hardware business ..." Peter Dille senior vice president of marketing at Sony Computer Entertainment

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    That Layer section video is cool - it shows how vdp2 effects are tied into the display generation, making it almost impossible to reproduce the same parrallax effect when rotating by 90 degrees.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Crazyace View Post
    That Layer section video is cool - it shows how vdp2 effects are tied into the display generation, making it almost impossible to reproduce the same parrallax effect when rotating by 90 degrees.
    Yeah, because it was using linescrolling and stuff to do the effect (like you would on a genesis).
    They could however have done the effect via other means without that same limitation.
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    Raging in the Streets Sik's Avatar
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    Er, stupid question, wasn't that 50% blend mode actually just a checkerboard pattern? (i.e. not real blending at all) At least that's the impression I got from the stuff in the devkit.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sik View Post
    Er, stupid question, wasn't that 50% blend mode actually just a checkerboard pattern? (i.e. not real blending at all) At least that's the impression I got from the stuff in the devkit.
    Pretty sure it's really a 50% blend mode, you can see it in games like Sonic R.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sik View Post
    Er, stupid question, wasn't that 50% blend mode actually just a checkerboard pattern? (i.e. not real blending at all) At least that's the impression I got from the stuff in the devkit.
    No, VDP 1 has two modes which can be used for transparency. The one you are talking about (which was more commonly used) was mesh mode, and the slow (items take six times longer to render), glitchy, half-transparency mode which averaged the colours of the transparent object and its background was the other.

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    Was the half transparent mode glitchy because of early docs/programming mistakes or because of the hardware feature itself?
    "... If Sony reduced the price of the Playstation, Sega would have to follow suit in order to stay competitive, but Saturn's high manufacturing cost would then translate into huge losses for the company." p170 Revolutionaries at Sony.

    "We ... put Sega out of the hardware business ..." Peter Dille senior vice president of marketing at Sony Computer Entertainment

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    Quote Originally Posted by sheath View Post
    Was the half transparent mode glitchy because of early docs/programming mistakes or because of the hardware feature itself?
    Hardware.
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    Okay, in that case I think I have only seen it in Black Dawn. Whatever Sonic R is doing with the 2D shields has no glitches, and neither does the alpha blending fade in or the Emerald level.

    "... If Sony reduced the price of the Playstation, Sega would have to follow suit in order to stay competitive, but Saturn's high manufacturing cost would then translate into huge losses for the company." p170 Revolutionaries at Sony.

    "We ... put Sega out of the hardware business ..." Peter Dille senior vice president of marketing at Sony Computer Entertainment

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    The alpha effect in the emerald level is actually a VDP2 effect. The shield still have the problem, but it's not very noticeable unless you have a transparent quad on top of another.
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