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Thread: Saturn has better 2D graphics than the PSX: How do you conclude that?

  1. #16
    The Gentleman Thief Baloo's Avatar
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    Compare Rayman on PSX to Rayman on Sega Saturn.
    Quote Originally Posted by j_factor View Post
    The Sega Saturn was God's gift to humanity. This is inarguable fact!
    Quote Originally Posted by llj View Post
    Count me as someone who never liked the Turbo/Hyper Fighting iterations of Street Fighter 2. The speed ups always struck me as too "Benny Hill".


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  2. #17
    ESWAT Veteran Da_Shocker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by j_factor View Post
    Any fighter that uses the Saturn RAM cart is going to be way lopsided in the Saturn's favor. You can argue it's not a totally fair comparison because Playstation never had a RAM expansion. Good non-RAM-cart examples are X-Men COTA, Street Fighter Alpha 2, Marvel Super Heroes (optional RAM cart support, but even without it), and Night Warriors (compared to Darkstalkers). Those still show a clear advantage for the Saturn.
    Ram simply allowed for more animation to be used i was talking about the fact that PSx version has loads of slowdown. On the Saturn version you can have 4 Juggernauts and NO slowdown. I don't think you can say that about the PSx version.
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    Japan on the other hand is in real danger, if Japanese men don't start liking to play with their woman, more then them selves, experts calculated the Japanese will be extinct within 300 years.

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    ESWAT Veteran Chilly Willy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Da_Shocker View Post
    Ram simply allowed for more animation to be used i was talking about the fact that PSx version has loads of slowdown. On the Saturn version you can have 4 Juggernauts and NO slowdown. I don't think you can say that about the PSx version.
    Like I said, when things get complex, the PSX can slow down since all that 2D has to be constructed on the fly by the CPU. That takes away from the time the CPU has to devote to game logic, plus the CPU generating GPU command lists is clearly not as efficient as a piece of hardware designed to build that 2D IN HARDWARE. On some games, it won't be apparent - on others you can see the extra work the PSX has to do.

    Now the N64 SHOULD have had enough horsepower to do that without slowdown, but Nintendo seems to have highly discouraged that kind of game. I don't think I've seen a single game on the N64 that is TRADITIONAL 2D - it's all 3D levels with a fixed camera and sprites, like Rakuga Kids. Doing traditional 2D on the N64 would be EXACTLY like doing it on the PSX. The N64 graphics library had all the same kinds of commands as the PSX with added options like extra filtering (tri-linear, aka, mipmaps) and perspective correction. The N64 was considerably faster if you didn't use perspective correction, and that would not be needed for 2D drawing.

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    WCPO Agent chinitosoccer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chilly Willy View Post
    Like I said, when things get complex, the PSX can slow down since all that 2D has to be constructed on the fly by the CPU. That takes away from the time the CPU has to devote to game logic, plus the CPU generating GPU command lists is clearly not as efficient as a piece of hardware designed to build that 2D IN HARDWARE. On some games, it won't be apparent - on others you can see the extra work the PSX has to do.

    Now the N64 SHOULD have had enough horsepower to do that without slowdown, but Nintendo seems to have highly discouraged that kind of game. I don't think I've seen a single game on the N64 that is TRADITIONAL 2D - it's all 3D levels with a fixed camera and sprites, like Rakuga Kids. Doing traditional 2D on the N64 would be EXACTLY like doing it on the PSX. The N64 graphics library had all the same kinds of commands as the PSX with added options like extra filtering (tri-linear, aka, mipmaps) and perspective correction. The N64 was considerably faster if you didn't use perspective correction, and that would not be needed for 2D drawing.
    +1 This;

    The Saturn is not only "more RAM", it also has better cpu's to handle 2D graphics than the PS1.

  5. #20
    Master of Shinobi TheSonicRetard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by j_factor View Post
    Any fighter that uses the Saturn RAM cart is going to be way lopsided in the Saturn's favor. You can argue it's not a totally fair comparison because Playstation never had a RAM expansion. Good non-RAM-cart examples are X-Men COTA, Street Fighter Alpha 2, Marvel Super Heroes (optional RAM cart support, but even without it), and Night Warriors (compared to Darkstalkers). Those still show a clear advantage for the Saturn.
    Even without a ram cart, X-men vs Street fighter on the Saturn lets you switch characters. You can't tag out on the PSX version - the game's defining feature was omitted due to ram constraints.
    A retarded Sonic.

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    Death Bringer Raging in the Streets Black_Tiger's Avatar
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    There's nothing like X-Men VS SF and Marvel VS SF on Playstation or N64. Maybe they could have done them under the right circumstances, but they didn't. People who claim 3D superiority for PSX over Saturn don't accept theoretical potential.

  7. #22
    Master of Shinobi TheSonicRetard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Black_Tiger View Post
    There's nothing like X-Men VS SF and Marvel VS SF on Playstation
    uh





    Unless you mean "a tag-team, fast paced fighter, that actually retained the ability to tag in and out" in which case:

    A retarded Sonic.

  8. #23
    Master of Shinobi
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheSonicRetard View Post
    uh





    Unless you mean "a tag-team, fast paced fighter, that actually retained the ability to tag in and out" in which case:

    Lol yea, clearly someone is clueless.

  9. #24
    Wildside Expert bpguimaraes23's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chilly Willy View Post
    Rasterized polys aren't warped - they're flat. You don't have any overdraw due to the rasterization. That makes them faster and less prone to distortion (beyond normal affine distortion on affine mappers).

    The advantage to warped quads come in that ability to twist around the quad to where they aren't flat - the common example given is to twist one side completely upside down, making a bowtie of the quad. That cannot be done with rasterized quads.
    Reading previous threads I was under the impression that the vdp1 and the ps pgu were very similar except for the fact that the vdp1 used quads. Apparently i was wrong, but I don understand this rasterized vs warped thing. Can someone explain me the differences, or point me to somewhere I can find out? Obviously I'm not a tech guy, I'm just curious.

  10. #25
    I DON'T LIKE POKEMON Hero of Algol j_factor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheSonicRetard View Post
    Unless you mean "a tag-team, fast paced fighter, that actually retained the ability to tag in and out" in which case:

    Have you actually played the PSX version of Marvel vs. Capcom? The tagging is seriously gimped: it only works if both players use the same set of two characters.


    You just can't handle my jawusumness responces.

  11. #26
    Master of Shinobi TheSonicRetard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by j_factor View Post
    Have you actually played the PSX version of Marvel vs. Capcom? The tagging is seriously gimped: it only works if both players use the same set of two characters.
    Yes, I know. It's an expanded form of a hidden mode from Xmen vs street fighter for the PSX. The point if you claimed nothing like it existed on the system, and yet... well, there it is.
    A retarded Sonic.

  12. #27
    I remain nonsequitur Shining Hero sheath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheSonicRetard View Post
    Yes, I know. It's an expanded form of a hidden mode from Xmen vs street fighter for the PSX. The point if you claimed nothing like it existed on the system, and yet... well, there it is.
    Well, I thought the versus games were only worth looking into if you were still into old stuff.

    In more seriousness though, I don't think I have seen any of the Capcom fighters praised on the PS1 for being better than any other console port. Unless we're talking about Monkeyboy Rox that is.

    "... If Sony reduced the price of the Playstation, Sega would have to follow suit in order to stay competitive, but Saturn's high manufacturing cost would then translate into huge losses for the company." p170 Revolutionaries at Sony.

    "We ... put Sega out of the hardware business ..." Peter Dille senior vice president of marketing at Sony Computer Entertainment

  13. #28
    Raging in the Streets Aarzak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheSonicRetard View Post
    Even without a ram cart, X-men vs Street fighter on the Saturn lets you switch characters. You can't tag out on the PSX version - the game's defining feature was omitted due to ram constraints.
    I don't believe that Saturn XMvSF works without the RAM cart. It was developed with the cart in mind.

  14. #29
    Master of Shinobi
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    Quote Originally Posted by sheath View Post
    Well, I thought the versus games were only worth looking into if you were still into old stuff.

    In more seriousness though, I don't think I have seen any of the Capcom fighters praised on the PS1 for being better than any other console port. Unless we're talking about Monkeyboy Rox that is.

    Hey j_Factor said there weren't any games like that on the PS, not that there weren't any especially good ones like that lol.

    Yea, the Capcom PS ports are meh(trying to port DC/DC grade fighters to the PS was a pretty dumb idea to beginwith), the ports on the PS2 are amazing though(some even better then the DC originals)

  15. #30
    Master of Shinobi TheSonicRetard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aarzak View Post
    I don't believe that Saturn XMvSF works without the RAM cart. It was developed with the cart in mind.
    You're right, I just tried to boot the game without my ram cart installed and got an error message. I had no idea the game actually required the cart, I thought only SNK games actually needed a cart to run.
    A retarded Sonic.

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