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View Poll Results: PSX or Saturn?

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  • PSX

    62 44.29%
  • Saturn

    78 55.71%
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Thread: The PSX Vs Saturn Poll.

  1. #706
    Hero of Algol TrekkiesUnite118's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soulis View Post

    You asked for 60fps games, i could bring up F-Zero X for running at 60fps with 29 AI 3D opponents on screen at once, each one doing it's own thing, with no slowdowns even when several opponents crash going crazy with physics and explosions, etc. But even though i personally like how the game looks, i understand that several visual sacrifices had to be done for it to run like this, just like how it happens with 60fps games in general.
    This is something that Nintendo is generally good at doing. They're pretty good at using an art style that plays into the graphical sacrifices they make for performance to get a game that runs well and still looks good even if it's not doing anything that impressive graphically. Sega on the other hand was usually tasked with porting a game from more powerful arcade hardware and trying to get it to look as close as possible, which is harder to do I'd imagine. When Sega had similar opportunities though you did see great looking Saturn games that still ran well.

  2. #707
    Master of Shinobi Soulis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Team Andromeda View Post
    Well I can name quite a few Saturn games that do that, not in full High Res mode granted but then again how many N64 games run at full high mode and had more than 6-7 polygon characters, can only think of 1 or 2 than even run in semi
    NFL Quarterback Club 98. All 22 players were 3D, you can see them all together at once and the game runs in high-res without expansion pack and without frame rate problems.



    But whatever, most 3D sports titles had 3D players, that wasn't all that special. It's just Decathlete that had to sacrifice poly counts for high-res and 60fps.


    Quote Originally Posted by Team Andromeda View Post
    and I can't think of one PS or N64 racer that features 40 fully polygon cars on the same track and with 3D bacrounds and runs at 30 fps like Daytona USA CE.
    Can you see all 40 cars at once?

    Granted, Daytone CE is one of the more impressive looking Saturn games.


    Quote Originally Posted by Team Andromeda View Post
    And lets face there were more 60 fps games on the Saturn and PS than the N64 and more games than run in High res mode too
    Sure.

    But that wasn't a console limitation or feature. That's a developer's decision. Sega was more coin-op oriented so they had 60fps at higher priority than the others. With the N64 most developers choose to push the console as hard as they could, sometimes beyound system's capabilities or developer's abilities, which is why you got more games with frame rate problems in comparison.

    But in any case, 60fps comes with sacrifices, especially with 5th gen consoles. Sometimes they are heavy, other times they more subtle but they were always there.


    Quote Originally Posted by TrekkiesUnite118 View Post
    This is something that Nintendo is generally good at doing. They're pretty good at using an art style that plays into the graphical sacrifices they make for performance to get a game that runs well and still looks good even if it's not doing anything that impressive graphically. Sega on the other hand was usually tasked with porting a game from more powerful arcade hardware and trying to get it to look as close as possible, which is harder to do I'd imagine. When Sega had similar opportunities though you did see great looking Saturn games that still ran well.
    Agreed. Although, IMO, if i had to choose who pushed the console the most i would pick Lobotomy. Both Quake 1 and Duke Nukem 3D ports were amazing to me. Especially Duke Nukem which even had a better engine than the original. Exhumed/Powerslave was also pretty awesome and the Saturn version was the best, no?
    Last edited by Soulis; 11-24-2016 at 12:56 PM.

  3. #708
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soulis View Post
    But whatever, most 3D sports titles had 3D players, that wasn't all that special. It's just Decathlete that had to sacrifice poly counts for high-res and 60fps.
    Do contemporary games on the same genre really have that many more polygonal objects than Decathlete?. Is it really sacrificing that many polygonal stuff to achieve the high-res 60fps, compared to similar games from its time?.

  4. #709
    Death Bringer Raging in the Streets Black_Tiger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by saturndual32 View Post
    Do contemporary games on the same genre really have that many more polygonal objects than Decathlete?. Is it really sacrificing that many polygonal stuff to achieve the high-res 60fps, compared to similar games from its time?.
    He's comparing football games to Decathlete instead of track and field games.

    I believe that most track and field games for PSX/N64 have tiny (Canadian small town high school) sized arenas to save on polygons. Decathlete's "cheap mode 7" track/field seems much larger and open, like a major track & field venue.
    Quote Originally Posted by year2kill06
    everyone knows nintendo is far way cooler than sega just face it nintendo has more better games and originals

  5. #710
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    Quote Originally Posted by Team Andromeda View Post
    I gather Stellar Assault had 6 Degrees of Freedom awesomeness and while not quite as good games like Blam Machinehead, and Firestrike, Darklight Conflict did much the same. Hell even the Quad based 3DO could join in the fun with the likes of Wing Commander III, Starfighter.
    Stellar Assault SS for the win!
    Quote Originally Posted by Psalm Down View Post
    Sony makes garbage and couldn't produce a durable piece of electronic equipment to save their lives. Have a look around the forum, not a Sony fan in the slightest. They owe me money as far as I'm concerned.

    Doesn't change reality though. Some Sonytards just like to dismiss reality and warp it to fit their idiotic love for a goddamn company.

  6. #711
    Master of Shinobi Soulis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by saturndual32 View Post
    Do contemporary games on the same genre really have that many more polygonal objects than Decathlete?. Is it really sacrificing that many polygonal stuff to achieve the high-res 60fps, compared to similar games from its time?.
    I remember Track & Field games being much more busy visually. All these "eventful" type of sports games always strike me of being visual busy. Meaning all athletes are 3D and there are some 3D objects around, not just a flat stadium. Decathlete just feels so empty and uneventful to me. It might have better animation and frame rate but it just doesn't have the atmosphere i'd like because of the way it looks.


    Quote Originally Posted by Black_Tiger View Post
    He's comparing football games to Decathlete instead of track and field games.
    No. I compared that to the other sports titles TA mentioned. I even quoted him because he asked to show him a high res game with more than a few polygonal characters...

  7. #712
    ESWAT Veteran Team Andromeda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soulis View Post
    NFL Quarterback Club 98. All 22 players were 3D, you can see them all together at once and the game runs in high-res without expansion pack and without frame rate problems.
    I remember you posting that before and I'll say again I'm not making out the N64 couldn't do 3D sports games or use full polygons models or that it couldn't do suff that the PS or Saturn would have a huge trouble trying to emu . I'm a huge fan of the N64, but now and again the Saturn was able to some special stuff that you seem all too ready to dismiss out of hand and not give credit for

    It's just Decathlete that had to sacrifice poly counts for high-res and 60fps
    All games will sacrifice stuff , hell even today XBox One sacrifice either 1080p output or 60 fps or somtimes both . I don't think you're being at all fair with Decathlete its runs in the systems highest res and runs at a constant and rock solid 60 fps and is displaying stunning graphics and high quality detaled textured mapping.

    Can you see all 40 cars at once?
    No and that's why I said 40 cars on all the same track . Its an impressive achievement more so with a full screen display and 30 fps , shame the AI and handling wasn't a patch on AM#2 Saturn Daytona

    But that wasn't a console limitation or feature. That's a developer's decision.
    Of coruse it is, in a ideal world all developers would push for 60 fps at the system highest screen Res , but then you have factor in polygons effects and what not . It was great days when each system had custom silicon and so each machine could do stuff the rival system would have issues with . PS and Saturn could justr forget about a game like Mario 64 (looking as good) but then the N64 would have issues making a game like VF II or the Saturn have issues with MGS or Vagrant Story .
    Panzer Dragoon Zwei is
    one of the best 3D shooting games available
    Presented for your pleasure

  8. #713
    Master of Shinobi
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    Quote Originally Posted by tomaitheous View Post
    Maybe my point wasn't clear. I mean that 704x480i60 is the exact same resolution as 704x240p60. The only way it can be true 480 is if every frame is double locked in sync, but that will never give you 60fps, only 30fps. So one of the games mentioned on the PS1 was 640x240p60. And a saturn game touted as 704x480i60. The only difference, is horizontal resolution of 64 pixels between the two. And the 240p version has the added benefit of no field effect. So I would say 640x240p60 is superior than 704x480i60.
    704x480i60 is only the same as 704x240p60 in the amount of unique pixels rendered per second.

    In 480i mode you have twice the screen size, you draw a more detailed picture, even if you only display every even or every odd line of it each frame. The interlacing is more or less hidden by the crt phosphor afterglow (this can range from unnoticeable to very annoying depending on the TV).

    Oh, and one more thing. The PS1 renders a 640x480 image as 640x480 in the framebuffer, and then outputs it interlaced. The Saturn meanwhile actually skips over every other line while rendering (it physically renders 640x240). So the Playstation is slower and has much less texture space in that mode... while the Saturn can't do any shading.

    Saturn can actually do 480p (technically, anyway).

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