Shouldl the 32X exist?

[eddiespruce]

I have a real master system, but I'd much rather use the Power Base Converter on a Genesis so I don't have to pull the Master System out every time I want play an SMS game. Just like I have a real PS1, but I don't pull them out each time I want to play a PS1 game because I just use my PS2.

There's a lot the the 32X is lacking, a passthrough for the PBC would have been great, or possible even making the cart wide enough that you could just drop an SMS game in there without the converter; that would have been awesome! I still enjoy the system though, and the number of times I personally have needed to remove it is pretty small.

Well, I certainly don't mind having my SMS hooked up. I never have more than one console hooked up at a time, and when I do have one hooked up, it has a pillowcase over it to keep dust off it. I only want to play one console at a time. The original Master System looks much better, and I'd feel bad using the PBC. I also would never use Genesis controllers on a Master System, because that would be wrong, so I purchased two SMS Competition Pro gamepads.

[StarMist]

What was wrong with the DC? The only complaint I have is the VMU is hard on batteries, and the fan is a little noisy. Other than those quibbles, I love my DC!

It should never have been able to read anything but a GDROM or had anything to do with M$, both which are what got it pirated out of existence. The laser track could also have been made better and the controllers needed better wiring in addition to all the usual ergonomic and practical complaints as they had a propensity to short.

[Chilly Willy]

It should never have been able to read anything but a GDROM or had anything to do with M$, both which are what got it pirated out of existence.

How did a few Windows CE games contribute to the DC being "pirated out existence"? Also, piracy had NEVER killed a platform, regardless of what any company claims. If there were hard evidence of such, the current game distributors would be posting it everywhere constantly. The most pirated platform ever is the PC, and it's still going strong. The truth of the matter is, all relevant studies show piracy actually HELPS the market, not hurt it. It's free form of advertising.

The laser track could also have been made better and the controllers needed better wiring in addition to all the usual ergonomic and practical complaints as they had a propensity to short.

Well, I've seen other console with more reports of laser troubles than the DC, and I thought the Jaguar had to worst controllers ever?

Now that you mention it, I do like other controllers better than the DC controllers, but they aren't bad enough to make me not want the DC. Nintendo has always had the worst controllers ever in my experience. The NES controllers were the worst of its gen, the SNES controllers were the worst of its, the N64 had the worst of its gen, the GC had the worst of its gen (but not by much... it was pretty close to the MS controllers), and the Wii has the worst EVER controllers of all time.

[StarMist]

I don't see M$'s intentions to make the Xbox compatible with DC games as an afterthought. I'll leave it there.
And for a company in Sega's position then piracy doesn't have to amount to some giant share of the games being played on it--some giant slice out of the market--it only has to scare off developers who have securer places to go.

@ DC pad = I actually like the SNES lozenge pattern of four buttons on front, but 6 total buttons? Eight was the minimum and another one or two wouldn't have hurt, eg two or three sets of shoulder buttons (not triggers, buttons) and a depressible analogue stick---or the d-pad could function as buttons when the analogue controls movement. The VMUs weren't too bad other than the shallowness of their novelty. Still the principal use of the screen seemed to be for sports games and Sega was pushing 2K so I'd give it a pass.

[Chilly Willy]

I don't see M$'s intentions to make the Xbox compatible with DC games as an afterthought. I'll leave it there.

Except the XBox wasn't compatible. Are you saying MS SAID they were going to be to try to lure devs away from the DC? That would make some sense. It's just the kind of dirty pool MS is known for.

And for a company in Sega's position then piracy doesn't have to amount to some giant share of the games being played on it--some giant slice out of the market--it only has to scare off developers who have securer places to go.

Which is still just an bad excuse - the Wii has been broken wide open since almost the moment it launched, but it's still "winning" this generation. Devs didn't and haven't left for "securer places". The most secure was (until the OTHEROS fiasco) the PS3, but nobody left any other platform for the PS3 for security. The PC has NEVER been secure - cracks are widely available within days (sometimes hours) of a game release. Never stopped anyone from making a PC game.

@ DC pad = I actually like the SNES lozenge pattern of four buttons on front, but 6 total buttons? Eight was the minimum and another one or two wouldn't have hurt, eg two or three sets of shoulder buttons (not triggers, buttons) and a depressible analogue stick---or the d-pad could function as buttons when the analogue controls movement. The VMUs weren't too bad other than the shallowness of their novelty. Still the principal use of the screen seemed to be for sports games and Sega was pushing 2K so I'd give it a pass.

Yeah, it was odd that the DC cut back from six to four main buttons. And a set of shoulder buttons to go with the existing triggers would have been pretty sweet. I think SEGA should have pushed the mini-games on the VMU more. They barely made more than a handful.

[Guntz]

The most secure was (until the OTHEROS fiasco) the PS3, but nobody left any other platform for the PS3 for security.

Don't forget the leaking of the "copy protection signing software" thing. I don't what it was called, but the tools and algorithms for signing digital content for play on unmodified PS3s and PSPs was leaked. That was a big, BIG deal.

[Chilly Willy]

Don't forget the leaking of the "copy protection signing software" thing. I don't what it was called, but the tools and algorithms for signing digital content for play on unmodified PS3s and PSPs was leaked. That was a big, BIG deal.

That was after the OTHEROS fiasco. WELL after. There was already custom firmware for the PS3 that would play unsigned software by that time. It WAS major because it meant you didn't need custom firmware for either the PSP or PS3. Most PS3 homebrew is released with both signed and unsigned versions for people with and without custom firmware.

[Da_Shocker]

Nintendo showed that carts were viable at least for a few more years, even when BIG. They made carts up to 32 MBytes at barely more than what they sold SNES carts for. The 32X had the extra advantage of being identical to Genesis carts, other than the shell being slightly wider to prevent people from sticking them in a Genesis. SEGA could have gone all the way to 32 MBytes on their own carts with no changes to how they made the cart. I think the second generation of 32X games would have been 4 to 8 MByte carts, with 12 to 32 for the last few games before they switched completely to the next console. I know that at the time, many people praised Nintendo for sticking with carts - carts were better for kids, who are hard on CDs. Ever rent a PSX or Saturn game (at the time) only to find it's so scratched up that it didn't work? That is rare for carts, and common for CDs. While I took VERY good care of my PSX CDs, I know plenty of people who didn't and wound up having to buy the game again, or do without the game. A lot of used game sellers also check the discs - if they're too scratched up, they won't buy them, or give you a lower price.

Sony showed that using only CDs was viable for a console, but it was by no means a settled matter AT THE TIME. It took them until the PS2 to make that point, and by that time SEGA would have been on the Dreamcast in any case. So the 32X with mostly carts (remember that you could also have CD 32X games if you also had the SCD) was certainly commercially viable.

I guess nobody is taking to the fact the MD finished dead last in Japan so the 32X was NEVER going to be viable there. IDK how ya'll overlook this. As for Nintendo again the N64 system never took off in Japan and the 3rd party support wasn't good at all. Carts were still viable to Nintendo but not to 3rd parties or any other company. Sega like Sony was committed to the CD format. Had the N64 went with the CD ROm format Square wouldn't have jumped ship in the first place and the N64 probably would've done a helluva lot better than it did.

[TVC 15]

I guess nobody is taking to the fact the MD finished dead last in Japan so the 32X was NEVER going to be viable there. IDK how ya'll overlook this. As for Nintendo again the N64 system never took off in Japan and the 3rd party support wasn't good at all. Carts were still viable to Nintendo but not to 3rd parties or any other company. Sega like Sony was committed to the CD format. Had the N64 went with the CD ROm format Square wouldn't have jumped ship in the first place and the N64 probably would've done a helluva lot better than it did.

Erm didn't TheNewGuy post some numbers from a German magazine where it did a fairly accurate round up at the end of the 16-bit generation of units sold per country? I think it was in one of these 32X threads that are all currently doing the rounds? I seem to recall the 32X selling more units in Japan than it did in the UK/EU. I think it was 270,000 or so 32X's for the 3.5 Million Megadrives sold in Japan, vs. 60,000-80,000 32X sold in the UK.

Oh wait here it is, hope TheNewGuy doesn't mind me posting this...

Do you mean this one?

Ok, I appreciate theres a big difference in population density and video game acceptance and adoption in Japan compared to here in the UK in the 90's alongside Japan's relatively high disposable income at the time meaning even 'failed' systems here in the EU/US gained a little bit of traction in the Japan, but those are some pretty good numbers for the market that supposedly had the Saturn "tailored" to it and all other hardware post 95" dropped.

In fact I was quite shocked when I saw them, I thought the 32X performance would have been absolutely abysmal in Japan. Of course I'm not saying this source is the absolute historical truth, but its not bad even if it is an estimate,.

[Da_Shocker]

Erm didn't TheNewGuy post some numbers from a German magazine where it did a fairly accurate round up at the end of the 16-bit generation of units sold per country? I think it was in one of these 32X threads that are all currently doing the rounds? I seem to recall the 32X selling more units in Japan than it did in the UK/EU. I think it was 270,000 or so 32X's for the 3.5 Million Megadrives sold in Japan, vs. 60,000-80,000 32X sold in the UK.

Oh wait here it is, hope TheNewGuy doesn't mind me posting this...



Ok, I appreciate theres a big difference in population density and video game acceptance and adoption in Japan compared to here in the UK in the 90's alongside Japan's relatively high disposable income at the time meaning even 'failed' systems here in the EU/US gained a little bit of traction in the Japan, but those are some pretty good numbers for the market that supposedly had the Saturn "tailored" to it and all other hardware post 95" dropped.

In fact I was quite shocked when I saw them, I thought the 32X performance would have been absolutely abysmal in Japan. Of course I'm not saying this source is the absolute historical truth, but its not bad even if it is an estimate,.

How on earth does that chart leave off the PCE. And the SCD numbers well the Wikki has always claimed 6 million sold worldwide and I always though that number was inflated.

[TVC 15]

How on earth does that chart leave off the PCE. And the SCD numbers well the Wikki has always claimed 6 million sold worldwide and I always though that number was inflated.

Well the source is from a German gaming magazine, and as the PC-Engine/TG-16 had very very limited distribution only in France, they probably deemed the PCE/TG16 unnecessary to provide figures for since the magazines audience in Germany have probably never heard of or come across it.

[Gogogadget]

I'd feel bad using the PBC.

I like the PBC, having only the Master System II (ick.), PBC means RGB instead of RF.

Although, my master system controller broke, even if it does have a horrible d-pad.

[sheath]

Erm didn't TheNewGuy post some numbers from a German magazine where it did a fairly accurate round up at the end of the 16-bit generation of units sold per country? I think it was in one of these 32X threads that are all currently doing the rounds? I seem to recall the 32X selling more units in Japan than it did in the UK/EU. I think it was 270,000 or so 32X's for the 3.5 Million Megadrives sold in Japan, vs. 60,000-80,000 32X sold in the UK.

Oh wait here it is, hope TheNewGuy doesn't mind me posting this...



Ok, I appreciate theres a big difference in population density and video game acceptance and adoption in Japan compared to here in the UK in the 90's alongside Japan's relatively high disposable income at the time meaning even 'failed' systems here in the EU/US gained a little bit of traction in the Japan, but those are some pretty good numbers for the market that supposedly had the Saturn "tailored" to it and all other hardware post 95" dropped.

In fact I was quite shocked when I saw them, I thought the 32X performance would have been absolutely abysmal in Japan. Of course I'm not saying this source is the absolute historical truth, but its not bad even if it is an estimate,.

I'm mostly surprised at how small the UK market was, less than 3 million in sales for both the SNES and the Genesis is tiny. Even if some people are right and EVERYBODY in the UK actually thought the same way about the 32X, we're not exactly talking about a market changing opinion.

The 32X was doing better than the Jaguar and 3DO in the US and Japan (and worldwide), that's the point of the device.

[Da_Shocker]

I'm mostly surprised at how small the UK market was, less than 3 million in sales for both the SNES and the Genesis is tiny. Even if some people are right and EVERYBODY in the UK actually thought the same way about the 32X, we're not exactly talking about a market changing opinion.

The 32X was doing better than the Jaguar and 3DO in the US and Japan (and worldwide), that's the point of the device.

Really the point was to counter two failing consoles that are no longer even making hardware anymore in which Sega isn't making hardware anymore. But then what happened to the 3DO M2?

[sheath]

Really the point was to counter two failing consoles that are no longer even making hardware anymore in which Sega isn't making hardware anymore. But then what happened to the 3DO M2?

Only failING because we know in hindsight that they failed. I mean, I know nobody in this discussion is going to, but read that Usenet thread, just for a page or two. The 3DO was definitely still in the running by summer 1995 by all accounts.

But by your estimation creating a counter product to existing products is "stupid". Say I run a metal company, and a competitor created star shaped gutters. They kept that product up, marketed it, and bragged that they were the only one to have star shaped gutters. I can make the star shaped gutter for less than my competitor. By your estimation I should just predict the future and not counter that product in any way, or make something that costs more than triple and hope it sells better.