Best way to burn games?

[Barone]

You're so smart...

That's actually not true at all. As others have said, it depends on your burner and media for the best possible combination, which is actually a trial and error process. There's many factors that go into all of this, such as read speed, write speed, wobble, jitter, error correction, etc., so there's really no true answer to this issue. My personal preference is to burn at half speed of the burner or CD, which ever has the lesser select-able settings between the two. So far, I've been pretty good about not burning coasters, and most of my games seem to play though just fine (aside from my POS Sega CD, which I'm angry at for other issues).

Also, make sure you're using high quality media. Verbatim and Taiyo Yuden have been very good to me in the past, but I'm sure there are other Azo and Cyanine based dye media that works just as well.

[eddiespruce]

You're so smart...

If you want to take a chance on possibly wearing your Sega CD's laser out quicker, be my guest, but I'll still be burning mine at slower speeds.

[ThugsRook]

You're right.
The best thing is search for some torrent like Darkwater's or genuine bla bla bla also using Darkwater's method to verify the quality of the image (no errors, not mp3 converted to wav, etc...).

actually, ive found quite a few of DarkWater's and ReDump's dumps to be bad. (usually on the audio/index side)

the prob with bin+cue is you (meaning I) have to completely dump it to verify it
to verify it i need to be familiar with it to begin with! (hehe)

just prey, prey a lot

[ThugsRook]

If you want to take a chance on possibly wearing your Sega CD's laser out quicker, be my guest, but I'll still be burning mine at slower speeds.

i dont know about laser wear but...

the point is that if you burn @ 48X max, it might spread to data out too far for a 1X drive to read quickly enough.
however, burning below 4X on a modern system might be impossible for many ppl, or cause errors itself.
"1/2 its max speed" should be slow enough for it to burn a "clean" disk that a 1X drive shouldnt have any probs with.

[Chilly Willy]

One more time... sigh.

Modern CD drives don't write the same speed all the way across the CD when set for high speeds - they write at different speeds at different places along the CD. 48X is the speed at the outermost speed zone on the CD. If your CD burning software shows the write speed, you'll notice you start closer to 20X to 24X on the innermost (starting point) of the CD. Most drives use zones where the speed is fairly constant, then jump to a higher speed when they reach a spot where that speed is possible. If you watch the speed, it'll stay around 20X for a while, then jump to 28X and stay for a while, then jump to 36X, and so on. If you see that, the disc will almost certainly NOT work on old consoles like the SCD. Any drive up to 6X always assumed the entire disc was at the same speed. They cannot handle the sudden change from one speed to another.

If the speed changes slowly and evenly from the start of the disc to the end of the disc, that MIGHT work on an old console. Some of the old drives could track a slow even change to a certain extent. I wouldn't bet on a disc that evenly changed from 20 to 48X to be readable all the way through. In any case, if the speed changes at all, it stresses the laser assembly (but not the laser itself) since you're forcing it to run at speeds it wasn't meant to run at. That 20 to 48 change is equivalent to a change from 1X to 2.4X... on a drive meant to handle 1X speeds.

So you don't need to use the slowest speed possible, you need to use the fastest speed that DOESN'T change across the disc, or only changes slowly and evenly and NOT by a whole lot. I burn all my discs at 10X, which for my drive actually means it changes slowly and evenly from about 8X to about 12X, with an AVERAGE speed of 10X.

[bgvanbur]

I had several problems with burning Sega CDs before, so I did some research on suggestions. I switched brands of CDRs and started burning at 1x. Since I had no problems doing it this way, I have done it this way ever since. So I always burn at 1x speed, I may not need to, but it works. (And besides, 98% of the time I am burning a version of a homebrew I am working on which isn't too big and the burning speed barely affects how long it takes to burn a disc).

[Barone]

One more time... sigh.

Modern CD drives don't write the same speed all the way across the CD when set for high speeds - they write at different speeds at different places along the CD. 48X is the speed at the outermost speed zone on the CD. If your CD burning software shows the write speed, you'll notice you start closer to 20X to 24X on the innermost (starting point) of the CD. Most drives use zones where the speed is fairly constant, then jump to a higher speed when they reach a spot where that speed is possible. If you watch the speed, it'll stay around 20X for a while, then jump to 28X and stay for a while, then jump to 36X, and so on. If you see that, the disc will almost certainly NOT work on old consoles like the SCD. Any drive up to 6X always assumed the entire disc was at the same speed. They cannot handle the sudden change from one speed to another.

If the speed changes slowly and evenly from the start of the disc to the end of the disc, that MIGHT work on an old console. Some of the old drives could track a slow even change to a certain extent. I wouldn't bet on a disc that evenly changed from 20 to 48X to be readable all the way through. In any case, if the speed changes at all, it stresses the laser assembly (but not the laser itself) since you're forcing it to run at speeds it wasn't meant to run at. That 20 to 48 change is equivalent to a change from 1X to 2.4X... on a drive meant to handle 1X speeds.

So you don't need to use the slowest speed possible, you need to use the fastest speed that DOESN'T change across the disc, or only changes slowly and evenly and NOT by a whole lot. I burn all my discs at 10X, which for my drive actually means it changes slowly and evenly from about 8X to about 12X, with an AVERAGE speed of 10X.

My drive, using the 48X setting, always starts at 16X (for the lead-in) then goes to 24X and stays there for sometime (23.9X-24.1X) then goes to 32X and maintains (the same variation); and makes the lead out using 40X.
Some people, like eddiespruce, think that the rest of the world is made of idiots or something... But if I'm setting it to 48X is 'cause I have tested ALL other speed options before and this one makes the discs work perfectly in my Mega CD. At first, I followed this myth of "the slower the better" and the discs were not working at all. My drive speed options starts with 10X but none of the other speed settings work as well as 48X. And with several different cheap brands it worked perfectly using 48X.
My PS1, on the other hand, does not read discs burned using that drive, no matter what CD-R brand and what speed. I have to use my notebook's drive at 24X to make good discs and use the shittiest brand avaible, other than that the discs won't work at all.

So don't be stupid, people, each case is different and all factors do matter.

[Silanda]

One more time... sigh.

Modern CD drives don't write the same speed all the way across the CD when set for high speeds - they write at different speeds at different places along the CD. 48X is the speed at the outermost speed zone on the CD. If your CD burning software shows the write speed, you'll notice you start closer to 20X to 24X on the innermost (starting point) of the CD. Most drives use zones where the speed is fairly constant, then jump to a higher speed when they reach a spot where that speed is possible. If you watch the speed, it'll stay around 20X for a while, then jump to 28X and stay for a while, then jump to 36X, and so on. If you see that, the disc will almost certainly NOT work on old consoles like the SCD. Any drive up to 6X always assumed the entire disc was at the same speed. They cannot handle the sudden change from one speed to another.

I question this, I have never seen evidence of this occurring with any drive/console/media combination that I have ever had. The only problems have been caused by one specific writer or (with my 3DO, which doesn't like burned discs at all) some media. In fact I have just tested a max speed burn on my Mega-CD just to be sure and as I suspected it has no problems reading across the entire disc. I'm not even sure I understand the logic behind it: if the writer is operating correctly the physical structure of the burned data should be the same whether the disc is burned at 1x, 52x, or variable speeds, as it still has to fit the same data in the same space and conform to the same standards with regards to spacing, pit length, etc. As far as I can see the speed that the data was burned at should be completely transparent to the reading drive, and any problems caused by high speeds would actually be the fault of the chemical properties of the CD-R dye or faulty mechanics/firmware on the burning drive.

In any case, if the speed changes at all, it stresses the laser assembly (but not the laser itself) since you're forcing it to run at speeds it wasn't meant to run at. That 20 to 48 change is equivalent to a change from 1X to 2.4X... on a drive meant to handle 1X speeds.

How? How does varying burn speed alter read speed? How would the reading drive even be aware of any change, especially in the case of one that was never designed to read CD-Rs in the first place? If that was the case and if the drive had to read faster than its design it would also mean that the data capacity of the disc would vary depending on write speed, something which is obviously not true.

I'm willing to be proven wrong but this is something I see posted again and again on gaming forums yet never see any evidence or technical data to back it up.

[Chilly Willy]

I question this, I have never seen evidence of this occurring with any drive/console/media combination that I have ever had. The only problems have been caused by one specific writer or (with my 3DO, which doesn't like burned discs at all) some media. In fact I have just tested a max speed burn on my Mega-CD just to be sure and as I suspected it has no problems reading across the entire disc. I'm not even sure I understand the logic behind it: if the writer is operating correctly the physical structure of the burned data should be the same whether the disc is burned at 1x, 52x, or variable speeds, as it still has to fit the same data in the same space and conform to the same standards with regards to spacing, pit length, etc. As far as I can see the speed that the data was burned at should be completely transparent to the reading drive, and any problems caused by high speeds would actually be the fault of the chemical properties of the CD-R dye or faulty mechanics/firmware on the burning drive.

There's TONS of evidence - EVERY person that cannot use a disc written at 48X, but can at lower speeds is evidence, and there are FAR more of them than the other way around. In fact, I question whether people who claim 48X works for them are not really lying. Did they really check the whole game, or just that it started and assumed it would play all the way through?

How? How does varying burn speed alter read speed? How would the reading drive even be aware of any change, especially in the case of one that was never designed to read CD-Rs in the first place? If that was the case and if the drive had to read faster than its design it would also mean that the data capacity of the disc would vary depending on write speed, something which is obviously not true.

The clock is extracted/regenerated from the data read from the laser. The clock goes through a feedback circuit that controls the motor speed. The point is the circuit that extracts the clock and data cannot operate but within a very narrow range of the base frequency. And yes, the capacity DOES vary across the disc - that's the whole point of changing the speed at different parts of the disc to obtain higher storage on new drives. You really need to look into how CDs/DVDs/floppies/harddrives/etc work some time.

[Silanda]

The clock is extracted/regenerated from the data read from the laser. The clock goes through a feedback circuit that controls the motor speed. The point is the circuit that extracts the clock and data cannot operate but within a very narrow range of the base frequency. And yes, the capacity DOES vary across the disc - that's the whole point of changing the speed at different parts of the disc to obtain higher storage on new drives. You really need to look into how CDs/DVDs/floppies/harddrives/etc work some time.

Ah, so variable speed reading/writing has nothing to do with avoiding exceeding the physical limits of the discs while maintaining best possible performance then? I'm aware of the differences between Z-CLV, CLV, and CAV, thanks. I also understand that old drives vary their RPM in order to maintain a constant linear velocity while reading, but what I fail to find evidence of is that the writing strategy has any impact on the data as it is physically laid out on the disc thereby forcing a reading drive to exceed its design specifications. Wouldn't that be a bit difficult anyway considering that writers follow the pregroove that is pressed into the disc in order to syncronise writes, irrespective of the speed that the data is written at? Seriously, if you have some technical documentation to back up what you claim then I'd love to see it, but nothing I can find suggests that the write strategy used impacts at all on the physical structure of the data on the disc.

EDIT: Oh, and as for accusing people of lying: where are all these people who can't play high speed burned games? They get mentioned in every thread I read about this subject yet they always seem strangely invisible. FWIW, I tried playing Snatcher: a game noted for being an arse for not loading from bad copies, playing saves from a few parts of the game, and using the Mega-CD to play back the audio tracks from across the disc. All worked fine with load times between locations and seek time between tracks no longer than would be expected from the original disc.

[Barone]

I just HAVE to give my TRUE personal experience testimonial every time someone asks about the right speed to burn a CD game 'cause I wasted several discs following the "law" that some guys try to force as the only way possible.
If your CD-Rs are working well burning at low speeds, so good for you and it's all good IMO too. But if you are having problems I just suggest that you try the other speeds as well 'cause there are exceptions, yes. And, no, I'm not lying. Just trying to help people to not waste 20-30 discs or a laser assembly based on fundamentalism.
If you search you'll find guys on several other forums telling that the right speed for them is higher than what most of the people recommend as THE ONLY ONE POSSIBLE most of the time.

I really could record several playthroughs using my discs burned at 48x but that would be a huge waste of time just to show what is obvious: what works for you, and you think that is the only truth to exist, may not work for other people.

[StarMist]

It seems all this tech bickering has frightened off the OP. Or perhaps he's just looking up those previous threads.
Anyway a point to be made is to avoid setting a drive write speed your CD-R doesn't have. If you choose x16 and your disk only supports x20 your burning program will adjust the speed mid process and you'll get a coaster. Just my experience.
Also, most ISO dumps are made for emulation as opposed to burning and these really are opposite ends. The uploader has usually monkeyed with something in the file; if you change anything back you'll have to create a new cue.
IMGBurn will reformat mp3 and wav automatically.

[AlecRob]

I can get games to work, but they never have music! even using the sega cue maker... any ideas?

[ThugsRook]

^ because you are trying to burn ISO+MP3s.
these files are not meant for burning.

[Ecco]

This thread is murky and confusing as hell. lol

actually, ive found quite a few of DarkWater's and ReDump's dumps to be bad. (usually on the audio/index side)

What exactly was bad? Are you saying the audio / index was changed in the interest of emulation? (I don't emulate so I don't really know about it, but people seem to be saying that such changes are made to facilitate emulation, right?) I also don't know anything about Darkwater or Redump.

I download ISO's from EMUPARADISE and they have all seemed fine AFAIK...

the prob with bin+cue is you (meaning I) have to completely dump it to verify it
to verify it i need to be familiar with it to begin with! (hehe)

just prey, prey a lot

So you're saying that the only way to verify it, is if you already know exactly what it is supposed to be in the 1st place?

So that means there is no practical way to verify it???

Also, most ISO dumps are made for emulation as opposed to burning and these really are opposite ends. The uploader has usually monkeyed with something in the file; if you change anything back you'll have to create a new cue.
IMGBurn will reformat mp3 and wav automatically.

Most ISO dumps are altered? Why? Are you just talking about the music format (in the interest of emulation), or other changes too? I can't imagine what other changes people would randomly make, and why?

Almost all of the Sega CD's I burned from ISO's have worked fine. How would you even tell if something was altered, so long as the game seemed to play perfectly fine?


As for CD burning speeds, my burned Sega CD's have worked fine no matter what speed I've burned them at. I started out burning them real slowly, but then tried max speed to see what would happen, and they all work fine.

I guess I'm one of the people who doesn't understand how different burning speeds would affect the burned CD. Isn't the burner creating the same exact disc image, no matter what speed it's at? Wouldn't that mean that the CD is physically identical no matter what speed it was burned at???