What if Sega had quit the hardware business in `95?

[j_factor]

The PS has a MPEG decoder in hardware, not JPEG.

No, it's M-JPEG (motion JPEG), not MPEG. The two are substantially different. Motion JPEG is exactly what it sounds like: each frame is a JPEG. No interframe compression, so M-JPEG overall doesn't compress much. So you either have an M-JPEG and an MPEG of similar quality, but the M-JPEG is a gigantic file, or you have the two of the same size, but the M-JPEG is much worse quality. On the upside, M-JPEG requires much less power to decode.

If PSX had an MPEG decoder in hardware, it would play VCDs out of the box. Instead, playing VCDs/MPEG video requires a silly third-party hardware add-on:

Heh, I always wondered why the magazines kept calling the video on PS1 JPEG compressed, that's always been pictures. The issue is always in the development kits/documentation and how standard they are. Everybody knows Sega's documentation wasn't all that clear early on and its dev kits weren't anywhere near what Sony sold developers with for the PS1 until 1996. That is the only real problem with some games having smaller windows or lower resolution for video.

I don't think the issue is dev kits when it comes to video clips. The main issue is the software codec used. Earlier Saturn games mostly used Cinepak, while later Saturn games tended to use True Motion -- this is broadly speaking, as True Motion was available from launch, and Cinepak was still used up to the end. True Motion produced much better results. Those are the two main ones. Both were also used in a number of PC games, Cinepak was common on 3DO, and True Motion was also used on Dreamcast. Even with the MPEG card a codec was needed, and I think the only one used was CRI's MPEG Sofdec. There was another codec called Lucid Motion used for a few Japan-only games. Indeo is another codec that was around at the time, that should have been usable on Saturn, but I don't know of any games that used it.

Aside from the choice of codec, the main thing that affects video quality is the amount of compression. More compression makes for a grainier video with more artifacts. On PSX, they would tend to save space by eliminating frames, which is why PSX videos sometimes suffer from low framerates. Lowering resolution to save space was done on both systems.

[Kamahl]

No, it's M-JPEG (motion JPEG), not MPEG. The two are substantially different. Motion JPEG is exactly what it sounds like: each frame is a JPEG. No interframe compression, so M-JPEG overall doesn't compress much. So you either have an M-JPEG and an MPEG of similar quality, but the M-JPEG is a gigantic file, or you have the two of the same size, but the M-JPEG is much worse quality. On the upside, M-JPEG requires much less power to decode.

Well that's even worse. It does explain the lame framerates.

[Thenewguy]

weak support for lighting

Eh? doesn't the Dreamcast have dedicated support for lighting effects? I know that virtually all of the games ported from Dreamcast to PS2 have downgraded lighting and shadow effects either way.

It would have made playing Shenmue, Quake 3, Outrigger a help of a lot easier to play for starters

Dont be retarded, Quake 3, and Outtrigger both have keyboard and mouse support, playing Quake 3 on PS2 with dual analogue sticks is an utterly pathetic experience by comparison, the game is virtually unplayable unless you turn the speed down to like a quarter of what its supposed to be played at.

[sheath]

The PowerVR chip in the Dreamcast has hardware support for a lot of things, I haven't found clear documentation of all of them. But real time shadow casting from a light source is one of them.

[Team Andromeda]

doesn't the Dreamcast have dedicated support for lighting effects? I know that virtually all of the games ported from Dreamcast to PS2

It has limited support for lighting

Dont be retarded, Quake 3, and Outtrigger both have keyboard and mouse support

I don't like paying games with a keyboard or mouse on a console , its defeats the object of playing a console game . I much rather play games with a standard pad and the DC pad was a poor step backwards with its lack of six buttons , piss poor d-pad (criminal by SEGA standards)

They've stated it was due to a lack of money for the license

SEGA were spending massive sums on the DC. SEGA didn't want to take a hit on the cost of selling the drive and the system at a huge loss . Sadly that massively backfired and cost the DC any chance in Japan

so the Dreamcast has long load times

Its not one game, but a huge list (Get Bass , Soldier of Fortune, SOA) ECT , and the noise the machines make when loading data in is beyond a joke . Never mind that thanks to the GD-Rom meant that one little scratch on your disc and it goodbye game .

The reason the latest PS3 ports are spot on is mostly thanks to the Unreal 3 engine.

I think its more do with the system now being the lead format system . Games like Bad Company II, Battlefield III, Assassin's Creed: Brotherhood, Vanquished, Castlevania LOS , Rage , GRAW IV, COD MW 3 don't run on unreal 3 tech.

did with the second analog stick was camera control, which is just silly

Silly ? In most fps or 3rd person shooters in vital and one of the main draw backs to playing games on the PSP.

Well i think in general the MS & MD were more good designs than bad

They still had issues . Mega Drive colour pallet was a complete joke, its lack of hardware to handle simultaneous sound samples , scaling (pretty massive given SEGA Arcade scalers) or effects like colour layering pretty poor . never mind that thanks to the way the Mega Drive processor and video processor were linked by a fork was a oversight that should haven't been there

[Kamahl]

SEGA were spending massive sums on the DC. SEGA didn't want to take a hit on the cost of selling the drive and the system at a huge loss . Sadly that massively backfired and cost the DC any chance in Japan

Yes... they didn't have the money. How is this hard to understand?

Also about the lighting, what the hell are you talking about? It does vertex lighting as do all the others. 6th gen systems don't do per pixel lightning. The PS2 doesn't even have hardware T&L, it has to do everything on the CPU while on the DC at least the perspective transformation part can be done on the PowerVR.

The DC's limitation is the amount of polygons it can push (which is the lowest of the 4). The PS2 can do about... twice as many, due to lots of stupid limitations in the design. The graphics chip can supposedly handle much more but the rest of the system can't keep up.

[TrekkiesUnite118]

Oh joy, another TA argument over Hardware capabilities:

[sheath]

It has limited support for lighting

Less limited in hardware than the PS2.

I don't like paying games with a keyboard or mouse on a console , its defeats the object of playing a console game . I much rather play games with a standard pad and the DC pad was a poor step backwards with its lack of six buttons , piss poor d-pad (criminal by SEGA standards)

Hence your poor opinion that dual analog is mandatory.

SEGA were spending massive sums on the DC. SEGA didn't want to take a hit on the cost of selling the drive and the system at a huge loss . Sadly that massively backfired and cost the DC any chance in Japan

Sony was gaining royalties for every DVD-ROM drive sold, Sega, Microsoft and Nintendo chose not to indulge them that generation.

Its not one game, but a huge list (Get Bass , Soldier of Fortune, SOA) ECT , and the noise the machines make when loading data in is beyond a joke . Never mind that thanks to the GD-Rom meant that one little scratch on your disc and it goodbye game .

You are trying to turn the drive noise, which is small compared to more modern systems, into long load times. I know you can't back down from a point, it is somehow impossible for you, but the PS2 and original Xbox have a LOT more games that load in the 12-20 second range than the Dreamcast does.

Silly ? In most fps or 3rd person shooters in vital and one of the main draw backs to playing games on the PSP.

Keyboard and Mouse, which the FPS genre originates from, uses analog for the aiming, and digital for the movement. The issue is the amount of buttons, not the amount of analog sticks.

[Thenewguy]

I don't like paying games with a keyboard or mouse on a console, its defeats the object of playing a console game.

The object of playing games on a console is all about having less choice and inferior controls?

Does not compute!

Sega made available the whole selection of specialised peripherals, you can't complain about the DC controller being less than optimal whilst advocating a controller which is, itself, far from perfect.

In reality anyone who is die-hard into Quake III Arena would laugh in your face if you asked them whether they'd prefer to use a Dual Shock, or mouse and keyboard.

[Team Andromeda]

The object of playing games on a console is all about having less choice and inferior controls

Less control choices and less options to upgrades are the price you pay for console gaming . But to make up for that you have the easy of use of the console and the fact that most console gamers play their consoles either on the bed or on the sofa which means the basic pad is the best and most easiest way to play console games

Sega made available the whole selection of specialised peripherals

They did for the Saturn, the Mega Drive ECT . But most console gamers will always play their games on the standard pad .

In reality anyone who is die-hard into Quake III Arena

In reality if you were a die hard Quake III fan you wouldn't be playing the console versions , but the PC versions if you were a Quake nut .

Sony was gaining royalties for every DVD-ROM drive sold,

SONY ?

Toshiba developed the DVD standard. Never mind that Sony and Philips developed the CD-Rom standard and that never stopped SEGA using CD-ROM's for the Mega CD or Saturn.

Hence your poor opinion that dual analog is mandatory

Anyone playing a 3rd person or FPS game on you PSP knows that having a 2 second stick would have made the world of difference , like with the DC pad it was a silly mistake not to include the 2nd stick.

You are trying to turn the drive noise, which is small compared to more modern systems

Modern systems ? The DC drive is the worst of the lot and one scratch on your GD-Rom meant your game in most cases was screwed . It wasn't a great format and SEGA should have bite the bullet and gone with DVD .

[Team Andromeda]

Yes... they didn't have the money. How is this hard to understand

They had the money to license DVD Hardware .

The DC's limitation is the amount of polygons it can push (which is the lowest of the 4). The PS2 can do about... twice as many, due to lots of stupid limitations in the design.

It wasn't just the polygons but also the system memory speed and bandwidth.

[TVC 15]

In a perfect world Sega Europe went rogue. Bought Core and got some tasty exclusives from under Sony's nose. Ignored Japan and America's squabbling and political games, refused to sell the 32X and told them it was a POS. Pushed the Saturn's date back a bit and priced it competitively.

Then packaged the technically superior Virtua Fighter Remix in over VF1, with the japanese style pad.
As myself installed as defacto leader of Sega's european operations I would write an open letter to Keji Osyau telling him he was a massive arse for not handling Daytona and making the Saturn look like an embarrassment. SoE refuse to stock Daytona, Keji apology comes in the form of a massively reworked version of Daytona for the european market, released elsewhere as Daytona Remix. It stands alongside the 'big three' of Xmas 95' as the 'fourth' and wee-wee's all over Ridge Racer.

Europe became Sega's second stronghold after Japan, the USA 'never got' the Saturn selling on only for a year later than its real world contemporary.

I'd also berate Sony as the betamax of video games in my marketing campaigns.

Chris Deering suffers from gastric flu at the launch event of the Playstation in europe, and follows through.

If only...


What a beautiful (if myopic) Sega Fanboy time that could have been. *Sigh*

[Team Andromeda]

. Bought Core and got some tasty exclusives from under Sony's nose

Buying Core would have made no difference . Having CORE making exclusiveness for the Mega CD didn't really help the system and Tomb Raider was exclisve to Saturn for 6 months and it never made a blind bit of difference to its sales

I would write an open letter to Keji Osyau telling him he was a massive arse for not handling Daytona and making the Saturn look like an embarrassment. SoE refuse to stock Daytona,

Blame SEGA's shareholders/PR for demanding that the game would not be delayed any more and ordering the team to make it out before April

And SEGA Europe made plenty of mistakes with the Saturn and Dreamcast and here is just a small list of them

- Not bringing out Football Mangerment sim for the Saturn in UK

- The most good awful game cases you could imagine

- Pal gamers not being able to enter their own ISP on the DC (until Dreameye 3) which all buy killed any chance of On-Line gaming on the DC

- Advertising Soul Calibur on national TV (what was the best looking game around at the time ), but showing someone send a e-mail on

- Thinking it was better to release Virtual Tennis during the New York open, rather than Wimbledon

And so it went on....

Ignored Japan and America's squabbling and political games

That always happens even with-in SONY . List to reports there's massive infighting with SONY TV divisions, and about the Vita and PS3 between SONY West and Sony Japan . NEC had loads of infighting , So did SNK and anyone that's in to F1 would know they was loads of Infighting with Honda and Toyota various divisions. So why people go on about SEGA's I just do not know

[TVC 15]

Buying Core would have made no difference . Having CORE making exclusiveness for the Mega CD didn't really help the system and Tomb Raider was exclisve to Saturn for 6 months and it never made a blind bit of difference to its sales

Blame SEGA's shareholders/PR for demanding that the game would not be delayed any more and ordering the team to make it out before April

And SEGA Europe made plenty of mistakes with the Saturn and Dreamcast and here is just a small list of them

- Not bringing out Football Mangerment sim for the Saturn in UK

- The most good awful game cases you could imagine

- Pal gamers not being able to enter their own ISP on the DC (until Dreameye 3) which all buy killed any chance of On-Line gaming on the DC

- Advertising Soul Calibur on national TV (what was the best looking game around at the time ), but showing someone send a e-mail on

- Thinking it was better to release Virtual Tennis during the New York open, rather than Wimbledon

And so it went on....

That always happens even with-in SONY . List to reports there's massive infighting with SONY TV divisions, and about the Vita and PS3 between SONY West and Sony Japan . NEC had loads of infighting , So did SNK and anyone that's in to F1 would know they was loads of Infighting with Honda and Toyota various divisions. So why people go on about SEGA's I just do not know

Valid points in the typically aplomb TA style we've come to love/loathe here.

Hindsights a bitch.

But thanks for noticing the joke.

Oh hang on...

[Team Andromeda]

Valid points in the typically aplomb TA style we've come to love/loathe here.

Hindsights a bitch.

But thanks for noticing the joke.

Oh hang on...

Buy hang on... How do you know I wasn't joking.