Primal Rage (32X)

[Barone]

What about the heights of the different characters? Wasn't that supposed to be one of the problems of the Genesis version, that the characters were not all the right size? I don't remember exactly, as I was never the most familiar with Primal Rage on any system. But one or two of the guys were the same size, instead of one being taller, IIRC.

Anyways what exactly was that height problem on the Genesis, and did the 32x version fix it?

Hmmmm well I don't know the game very well on any platform, but I thought I heard that the Genesis version had the T-rex guys at the same height, when one of them was supposed to be taller... or something like that...

Yeah, Sauron's supposed to be taller than Diablo, and Blizzard is supposed to be taller than Chaos, but they didn't really differentiate between them in the Genesis version. I don't recall if the 32x version fixed that, though.

^Rep'ed for the info.

The 32X version has the same problem of the Genesis and SNES (yep, it's wrong too) versions, so the size and height of the characters aren't correct.
3DO, PS1, Saturn and Jaguar CD versions got it right.

Thanks Probe for another subpar port for the 32X!

[Curryman123]

@agostinhobaroners

Didn't get you bro. What are you trying to say?

[David J.]

the 32X version was going to be a CD32X release... I wish it would have came out, but oh well.

[Barone]

@agostinhobaroners

Didn't get you bro. What are you trying to say?

I was just confirming for Assman that the 32X version also suffers from the problem that he and other guys pointed.
Like he said Sauron's supposed to be taller than Diablo, and Blizzard is supposed to be taller than Chaos, but there's really no differences between them in the Genesis version. As for the 32X and SNES versions.
Is that clear now?

[Zebbe]

What a crap game. As with Mortal Kombat II, Probe should have used the 32X to give more colours to the backgrounds. They are so awfully grainy.

[Barone]

Probe managed to suck even more. They were also responsible for Primal Rage on the PS1, which has very buggy sound and whose backgrounds are far from being great. The Saturn version, also by Probe, is like the PS1 version minus bugs but the graphics are still lacking several elements from the arcade. Let alone the loading times for both versions.
3DO and Jaguar CD versions are the better ones, "coincidentally" not made by Probe AFAIK.

[Phantar]

Oddly enough for the time, the best home port of the Arcade game "Primal Rage" probably was for PC's (we're talking DOS-era PC here...). That port was done by a little company called Teeny Weeny Games (now better known as Perfect Entertainment).

@agostinhobaroners: Are you sure about 3DO and Jaguar versions? I thought Probe handled the 3DO-port as well. Jaguar would make sense though, seeing that both the Arcade game and the console were made by Atari (though the Software and the hardware divisions of Atari were separate entities at the time, Atari Games and Atari Corp respectively...)

[bgpjr]

My favorite port is the version on Midway Arcade Treasures volume 2 on Xbox/PS2. That version isn't an emulated rom, but an actual port as a lot of the moves have been altered so that the game plays more like Street Fighter/Mortal Kombat (in how the moves are executed). Plus the graphics and sound are great!

[Aarzak]

About the port on MAT2, from the game's Wiki:

The Primal Rage design team implemented an unusual and largely unknown security method into the arcade machine's coding that prevented the full features of the game from becoming active. As a result, the game has never been accurately emulated on any platform.

Blood would be "censored" in that it would be colored a yellowish color with a brown shading. Also, fatalities could not be performed, and many special moves were not available, most notably characters with "Pouncing" moves could not land on the victim (Sauron's leaping bone bash, and Chaos's flying buttocks slam. Diablo's pulverizer has this problem though it can be landed on Talon for some reason but none of the others.). Another emulation problem was the player could no longer chain attacks which greatly decreased the chance of performing a combo. In the original arcade version, it was possible to repeat attacks such as Diablo's low 1 and standing 3+4.
This affects Midway Arcade Treasures 2 (Classics), which was expected to feature an arcade perfect rendition of the game, but provided a censored and incomplete version instead.
The original programming team has since moved on to other things. Some of the programmers have actually departed the electronic entertainment business altogether and could not be located for questioning regarding the game's security lock-outs. Others, who have been contacted, expressed no interest in unlocking the ROM BIOS for freeware distribution or security corrections. Thus, no ROM exists for Primal Rage that is not censored in some way.

Damn programmers!

[Barone]

@agostinhobaroners: Are you sure about 3DO and Jaguar versions? I thought Probe handled the 3DO-port as well. Jaguar would make sense though, seeing that both the Arcade game and the console were made by Atari (though the Software and the hardware divisions of Atari were separate entities at the time, Atari Games and Atari Corp respectively...)

Yep, you're right, I remembered that incorrectly.
However, the 3DO version loadings are minimal while the PS1's are a major pain. The 3DO version also have some laughable CG movies that the PS1 version does not have. I will analyze the 32-bit versions deeply and will be back tomorrow with more info...

My favorite port is the version on Midway Arcade Treasures volume 2 on Xbox/PS2. That version isn't an emulated rom, but an actual port as a lot of the moves have been altered so that the game plays more like Street Fighter/Mortal Kombat (in how the moves are executed). Plus the graphics and sound are great!

Everything there is emulated AFAIK. Badly emulated as most of the PS2 collections are.
But I was expecting the common "ZOMGZ PS2 COlleCtion is DA BOMB!" post. Thanks.

About the port on MAT2, from the game's Wiki:

The Primal Rage design team implemented an unusual and largely unknown security method into the arcade machine's coding that prevented the full features of the game from becoming active. As a result, the game has never been accurately emulated on any platform.

Blood would be "censored" in that it would be colored a yellowish color with a brown shading. Also, fatalities could not be performed, and many special moves were not available, most notably characters with "Pouncing" moves could not land on the victim (Sauron's leaping bone bash, and Chaos's flying buttocks slam. Diablo's pulverizer has this problem though it can be landed on Talon for some reason but none of the others.). Another emulation problem was the player could no longer chain attacks which greatly decreased the chance of performing a combo. In the original arcade version, it was possible to repeat attacks such as Diablo's low 1 and standing 3+4.
This affects Midway Arcade Treasures 2 (Classics), which was expected to feature an arcade perfect rendition of the game, but provided a censored and incomplete version instead.
The original programming team has since moved on to other things. Some of the programmers have actually departed the electronic entertainment business altogether and could not be located for questioning regarding the game's security lock-outs. Others, who have been contacted, expressed no interest in unlocking the ROM BIOS for freeware distribution or security corrections. Thus, no ROM exists for Primal Rage that is not censored in some way.

Damn programmers!

This.

[Barone]

I finally had a chance to deeply compare 3DO, PS1 and Saturn versions of this game.

PS1 version has the video intro AND the original arcade intro using cutscenes (which is also present in the Jaguar CD version) that is missing is the 3DO and Saturn versions.
It also uses the arcade VS Screen, like the Jaguar CD port.
3DO and Saturn versions use a CG-based video before each fight to introduce the bio of the character that you're challenging.
PS1 loading time is abysmal in comparison to the other 32-bit versions. It takes likes 5-6 seconds to load the next round while the 3DO version takes 1 sec and the Saturn version does it without any noticeable loading. The in fighting loadings for the ending animations also take some annoying amount of time to load. Pretty lame.

PS1 and Saturn versions have the same sprite size of the arcade, being the 3DO version clearly smaller but still a tad bigger than the ones used in the Jaguar CD version. The 32X's sprites are smaller than all of them.
PS1 version runs a bit faster than the Saturn's and both clearly faster than the 3DO's but the colors are kinda bad, I think that the 3DO version delivers better colors and backgrounds than the PS1 version.
The Saturn version has the best graphics by a large margin, with far superior coloring.

3DO and Saturn version look, sound and feel more polished in several details, with the Saturn having the edge.

I would rate the versions like this (for the Jaguar CD one I couldn't evaluate using real hardware so my judgement can be wrong, despite the great amount of sources that I used):
Saturn>>3DO>Jaguar CD>PS1>>>32X==SNES>>Genesis

[Phantar]

Now that would be a HUGE side-by-side Feature!

[bgpjr]

Everything there is emulated AFAIK. Badly emulated as most of the PS2 collections are.
But I was expecting the common "ZOMGZ PS2 COlleCtion is DA BOMB!" post. Thanks.

But the moves are not performed the same, so it's not exactly emulated. If it was emulated, then the methods to perform the moves would be the same as the arcade, correct?

And I haven't played the PS2 version, so I don't know if that's the bomb. Actually referring to the xbox version, which is by no means perfect, especially regarding other games on that collection, it's still rather decent and worth the purchase. So rather it's an OMGZ Da XbOX porT iz AWESOMZ! post.

[Barone]

But the moves are not performed the same, so it's not exactly emulated. If it was emulated, then the methods to perform the moves would be the same as the arcade, correct?

If they had the original source code it should be no problem to port it properly. However, they can't even get to run it properly, which suggests that they don't have the sources anymore and don't have a clue about the original implementation.
IMO they probably just modified (hacked) the original rom, replacing the original moves with newer ones to avoid the lockout problem that would cut the original combos.

After the 32-bit era (and that one was already plagued), I don't remember about collections with true ports, only emulation or atrocious "improved" versions written from the ground up.

Actually referring to the xbox version, which is by no means perfect, especially regarding other games on that collection,

So you are recommending Midway Arcade Treasures 2 which actually has a Primal Rage version that plays totally different from the arcade and whose emulation is just as "good" as the terrible sounding buggy MK emulations that I can find in the same cheapo collection?
Thanks but I think that I'll still have more fun playing the solid Saturn version of Primal Rage (as well as the solid PS1 version of MKII) rather than acting like a zombie with this "I want a cheapo collection full of poorly emulated crap to fill my arcade perfect experience needs" disease.

[NeoVamp]

Actually the MAT2 version of Primal Rage isn't as raped as the MK emulations, and it has its own XBE so i installed it on my xbox drive,
looks like a pretty damn good emulation to me, I too am almost convinced its a port.

I should really look into those files sometime, see if there's any mention in the xbe of it being emulated.