Touhou on Genesis

[evildragon]

You know, I would LOVE to see the Touhou games ported to the genesis, especially if we can see gameplay like this..



Hell, I don't care if I have to turn my TV 90 degrees to see it properly.

I think the SEGA Genesis can do better music than this though, but still cool!

[evildragon]

Oh, and I blame Chilly Willy for me starting to like this game, because he posted a direct color demo that had the song Bad Apple on it, and of course, I research everything I hear or see, and now found my way into this series of games.

[Chilly Willy]

Oh, and I blame Chilly Willy for me starting to like this game, because he posted a direct color demo that had the song Bad Apple on it, and of course, I research everything I hear or see, and now found my way into this series of games.

That song IS rather catchy, ain't it?

[evildragon]

That song IS rather catchy, ain't it?

Hell yea!

[Thunderblaze16]

I only heard of this game threw this video at the time.

[evildragon]

Yea, so that's just uh, creepy.

I saw that a couple days ago when I was tired at night and it nearly prevented me from sleeping.

[sega16]

I hate to ask this question and potentially embarrass my self but what does it mean by the U.N owen was her. Does it mean someone named U.N. Owen got a nasty surgery meaning she is now addressed by some people as he. I hope not that would be very sicking and weird and I wound not like to make a game about that. So if I am wrong about this which I hope I am could somebody care to explain what this is. Maybe it is in engrish and is simply a bad translation for something totally different. So help out your fellow creative American sega16 and explain what U.N. Owen really means.
Edit I thought someone would have the same question that I did on yahoo answers but it seems that people are just as clueless as I am http://answers.yahoo.com/question/in...0164312AAhnSnD
One troll even posted a racist message

[evildragon]

I actually don't know specifically myself, other than the song kicks ass, but I would recommend reading this.

http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/un-owen-was-her

[goldenband]

Honest question, not meant to be inflammatory: is this game actually fun?

I see the appeal as a visual and aural spectacle, sure, and maybe as a proof of manly gamer strength, but...it just looks so heavy on memorization and so long-winded (almost nine minutes of that?!) that I'm totally turned off. (It probably doesn't help that I'm not into the anime-style aesthetics, either.) So my visceral reaction to the idea of seeing this on the Genesis is "Ugh, no thanks".

Obviously I know people are really into bullet hell shmups/shooters, so I'm just curious about what the experience of playing them is like, and whether I'm overlooking something about it. To me, it just looks like a video game version of a Busby Berkeley dance routine. But I also realize this is a fairly well-worn debate too, so...

[sega16]

Honest question, not meant to be inflammatory: is this game actually fun?

I see the appeal as a visual and aural spectacle, sure, and maybe as a proof of manly gamer strength, but...it just looks so heavy on memorization and so long-winded (almost nine minutes of that?!) that I'm totally turned off. (It probably doesn't help that I'm not into the anime-style aesthetics, either.) So my visceral reaction to the idea of seeing this on the Genesis is "Ugh, no thanks".

Obviously I know people are really into bullet hell shmups/shooters, so I'm just curious about what the experience of playing them is like, and whether I'm overlooking something about it. To me, it just looks like a video game version of a Busby Berkeley dance routine. But I also realize this is a fairly well-worn debate too, so...

Agreed I hate it when a game expectes you to know something when thats not the case I always try to avoid anime at all cost I do not like it one bit I could never enjoy it although sometimes the terrible translations are funny but it can ruin the story when I have to pause the video and try to figure out what it means like U.N. Owen was her what would that mean?

[KimbleJustice]

Obviously I know people are really into bullet hell shmups/shooters, so I'm just curious about what the experience of playing them is like, and whether I'm overlooking something about it. To me, it just looks like a video game version of a Busby Berkeley dance routine. But I also realize this is a fairly well-worn debate too, so...

There are two main differences between bullet hell shmups and old-school shmups, really. The first is your ship's hitbox - there's a hell of a lot of bullets flying around, but your hitbox is normally only a tiny orb in the very centre of your ship, meaning that you have a lot more space to move about. The decreased hitbox means that, really, bullet hell shmups aren't harder than old-school games - if anything, they're easier. Take the Mega Drive's toughest shmups - I've never played any bullet hell game that's even remotely close to the challenge set by the likes of Thunder Force III/IV, Slap Fight and Truxton (and let's just not even bring up UndeadLine...that game makes any bullet hell game whatsoever look like Barney's Shoot 'em up-o-Rama) - they're fairer than the old games too - there usually aren't any speed power-ups in bullet hell games, meaning that they won't cripple you by taking all those power-ups anyway when you get killed.

There's also a great difference in the scoring systems - they're a lot more complex and encourage different styles of playing shmups. Old school shmups are very simple, because they're all about survival - something comes on the screen, and you shoot it. Bullet hell games are different because they have combo systems, which rise as you blow up enemies and usually finish if you haven't killed anything in 3 seconds - you're encouraged to leave enemy ships on the screen a lot of the time, so you can chain wave after wave of them together, possibly even chaining an entire level - so they bring in quite a bit of risk and reward to the usual shmup play. The most popular bullet hell videos on YouTube (of things like, say, the "True Final Boss" from Mushihimesama) don't really represent the game so well - they're showing things that you need to be an absolute expert at the game to reach - usually you have to 1cc the game at the very least just to get a crack at reaching the "True Final Bosses". Here's a video from DoDonPachi Dai Ou Jou that's better -this is still high-level play, but it's an example of what I'm talking about, how these games actually play in the stages and how it's possible to get a combo going.

What does someone get out of it? For me, it's all about the adrenaline - they're beautiful games to look at, and just as fun to play if not more so than older shmups. I love them - they're one of my favourite genres, and really I'm not all that good at them. 'Cause here's something else: Bullet hell games are not in any way, shape or form, hardcore games. They're easy to pick up and play, and you can play them any way you like - you don't have to concern yourself with high score if you don't want to, and you probably shouldn't in the beginning - you can just play it like you would any other shmup, and then gradually start thinking about how you can get a better score once you've mastered a stage - or, again, you can just keep trying to survive. They're very versatile. They're only hardcore once you get to the stage where you've mastered the game from head to toe, but you don't need to do that at all to have lots and lots of fun.

If you have a MAME set or anything like that, I'd recommend trying out the original DoDonPachi over any other and just treating it like a shooter - that should give you all the info you need (also, there's thankfully no anime in that game!)

[goldenband]

Hey, thanks very much for the thoughtful, detailed reply. I suspected that the dynamics were something like what you described, but it's very useful to have it all summarized and synthesized in one place & so articulately.

Bullet hell games are different because they have combo systems, which rise as you blow up enemies and usually finish if you haven't killed anything in 3 seconds - you're encouraged to leave enemy ships on the screen a lot of the time, so you can chain wave after wave of them together, possibly even chaining an entire level - so they bring in quite a bit of risk and reward to the usual shmup play. The most popular bullet hell videos on YouTube (of things like, say, the "True Final Boss" from Mushihimesama) don't really represent the game so well - they're showing things that you need to be an absolute expert at the game to reach - usually you have to 1cc the game at the very least just to get a crack at reaching the "True Final Bosses".

I wonder if this suggests that I'm not cut out for this style of game, because you mentioned two of my pet peeves in gaming: scoring combo systems, and needing to play more-or-less perfectly to get the best ending or to reach the "real" final boss.

On the former front, I've never liked cumulative, Pac-Man style bonus systems because they make me feel completely OCD, trying to get perfection and feeling frustrated whenever I make the tiniest slip. That may seem like an anachronistic comparison, but I wonder if the dynamic would still affect me the same way -- it makes the game feel like it's defined by failure, rather than the pleasures of success, if that makes sense. Also, most games with scoring combos seem to require some degree of pattern memorization, and that's not my thing.

And on the latter front, one of the things I like in old-school gaming is that the all-clear/game-winning conditions are usually unambiguous, and don't require perfection. Street Fighter II Turbo was the first game I can remember playing where you needed to be essentially perfect (no rounds lost) to get the best ending, and the requirement felt inhumane (especially because I loathe SFII's difficulty system of having the enemy do more damage than the player). If I need to be perfect in a game, I want it to be in a game like Marble Madness where perfection is the survival requirement of the game itself, not a meta-layer on top of it -- if that makes sense.

But at some point I'll give DoDonPachi a shot, and maybe other games on platforms available to me (I don't have a Saturn -- what would you recommend on Dreamcast, PlayStation 1, or GameCube?). Still, if I'm driven half-mad by the Stage 6 boss in Sol-Feace...!

[The Coop]

Yea, so that's just uh, creepy.

I saw that a couple days ago when I was tired at night and it nearly prevented me from sleeping.

For some extra WTF factor...

[KimbleJustice]

I wonder if this suggests that I'm not cut out for this style of game, because you mentioned two of my pet peeves in gaming: scoring combo systems, and needing to play more-or-less perfectly to get the best ending or to reach the "real" final boss.

On the former front, I've never liked cumulative, Pac-Man style bonus systems because they make me feel completely OCD, trying to get perfection and feeling frustrated whenever I make the tiniest slip. That may seem like an anachronistic comparison, but I wonder if the dynamic would still affect me the same way -- it makes the game feel like it's defined by failure, rather than the pleasures of success, if that makes sense. Also, most games with scoring combos seem to require some degree of pattern memorization, and that's not my thing.

And on the latter front, one of the things I like in old-school gaming is that the all-clear/game-winning conditions are usually unambiguous, and don't require perfection. Street Fighter II Turbo was the first game I can remember playing where you needed to be essentially perfect (no rounds lost) to get the best ending, and the requirement felt inhumane (especially because I loathe SFII's difficulty system of having the enemy do more damage than the player). If I need to be perfect in a game, I want it to be in a game like Marble Madness where perfection is the survival requirement of the game itself, not a meta-layer on top of it -- if that makes sense.

But at some point I'll give DoDonPachi a shot, and maybe other games on platforms available to me (I don't have a Saturn -- what would you recommend on Dreamcast, PlayStation 1, or GameCube?). Still, if I'm driven half-mad by the Stage 6 boss in Sol-Feace...!

I understand that those aren't the most appealing factors, especially knowing that there's something that exists way out of your reach - and if you're going to get there, pattern memorization is absolutely essential. There's no way to 1cc the hardest difficulties of a shmup without knowing exactly where you need to go, having done it enough that it's in your bones. I just try not to bother with most of it...really, I play these games as I would old-school shmups - I don't pay all that much attention to the combo system, and if I see something come up on screen, I'll probably shoot it rather than wait for it to come down a bit further so I can chain it with something else (reflexes, really - I've played shmups for an age, and now someone's telling me not to shoot something straight away? Can't do it!). And it's still fun - it's an extra that certainly deepens the gameplay, but they're still just as fun when played normally without worrying about scoring high - just thinking about surviving on reflexes and dodging bullets. And as far as the true endings go...meh, a lot of these games are Japanese only and Arcade-based anyway, so I can't understand the text and in any case it's probably only a couple more screens of "WELL DONE!" - I don't feel like I'm missing out on much.

On the Dreamcast, you're pretty spoilt for choice. Racketboy has a good article covering most of the shmups available: http://www.racketboy.com/retro/sega/...ps-2d-shooters - of these, I know Castle Shikigami, Giga Wing 1 + 2 and Psyvariar 2 and would recommend all of those - virtually all the games on the list are well liked. Ikaruga by Treasure is by far the most famous game there though...personally I'm not a fan of Treasure's shmups at all, but it's certainly rated by many.

You can get DoDonPachi on PS1 (along with the game it succeeded, DonPachi), although I don't know if that's more or less hard to find than the Saturn version. PS1 is very, very well-serviced as far as shmups go - you could also get something like Einhander, which is kind of in the middle between bullet hell and old-school, and there's tons of other games (mostly old-school - there's updates/compilations for Raiden, R-Type, Darius, Gradius, Parodius...lots and lots.) Alas, I know nothing about Gamecube.

Pricing for these games can vary. Dreamcast is generally regarded as THE console for bullet hell games (although you can now get quite a few on Xbox 360), so I imagine that won't be cheap. PS1, as mentioned, has a ton of shmups, but I think there's only a couple of REALLY rare shmups on PS1 that'll break the bank. I don't think either DoDonPachi or Einhander are anywhere near the age-old Radiant Silvergun $100+ mark.

[evildragon]

I like the game because it's a challenge. It's a maze that you need to solve every second.

I beat MUSHA so many times I got bored.