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Thread: Paprium: Official Thread

  1. #9616
    Master of Shinobi evilevoix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by avlon View Post
    Looks like Fonzie took so long that Terraonion beat him to the enhanced music cart. The MegaSD will allow for MSU-1 like CD audio without an actual Sega CD.

    So at this point, it looks like Streets of Rage 4 & enhanced audio Genesis games will beat Paprium to market. (If it's ever released.)

    Great job there, Watermelon "Co."!
    Link?

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    Hedgehog-in-Training Hedgehog-in-TrainingWildside Expert nihilblack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Black_Tiger View Post
    It's not real Mega Drive sound and takes it several generations beyond what was remotely possible before probably Xbox 360. Aside from being a mechanical mix of technology from decades in the future and the Mega Drive, ir's pretty much a given that all of the sound effects eould be high quality samples as well. It would sound like a generic faux "retro" game.

    Xeno Crisis uses only Mega Drive hardware for the sound.
    I don't know what sample from Paprium you listened to but couldn't the same tracks have been played on any audio CD? I can't figure out why it would take a 360, it's not like the game is outputting 5.1 surround. (Actually, I don't know if the game outputs any sound at all, it was mute at that party).

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    Quote Originally Posted by axel View Post
    I don't know what sample from Paprium you listened to but couldn't the same tracks have been played on any audio CD? I can't figure out why it would take a 360, it's not like the game is outputting 5.1 surround. (Actually, I don't know if the game outputs any sound at all, it was mute at that party).
    I believe that it's 24 channels of 48kHz sound. An audio CD streams one continuous 44kHz track at a time.

    Since Fonzie has bragged about the specs, it's safe to assume that after however many extra channels of sampled audio are used for the music parallel with Mega Drive sounds, all of the voices and sound effects are likely going to be 48kHz samples as well.
    Quote Originally Posted by year2kill06
    everyone knows nintendo is far way cooler than sega just face it nintendo has more better games and originals

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    Quote Originally Posted by Black_Tiger View Post
    I believe that it's 24 channels of 48kHz sound. An audio CD streams one continuous 44kHz track at a time.

    Since Fonzie has bragged about the specs, it's safe to assume that after however many extra channels of sampled audio are used for the music parallel with Mega Drive sounds, all of the voices and sound effects are likely going to be 48kHz samples as well.
    Mixing 24 channels might be impressive for a Genesis game but it's not exactly a new thing, even the Saturn can mix 32. When it goes to the speakers it's still only two channels (left and right) just like a CD. Changing the sample rate from 44.1 to 48 makes no audible difference whatsoever, unless you can hear sounds over 22 KHz (not that most speakers could reproduce them anyway).

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    Hedgehog-in-Training Hedgehog-in-TrainingWildside Expert MushaAleste's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by axel View Post
    48 makes no audible difference whatsoever
    Only bats and dogs can hear in a range that high. They say. On the other hand, i used to have a couple of MP3 files that stood out in quality from all the other 320KB files i had. They sounded audibly clearer, with slightly more fidelity and punch to them. It made no sense really. And when i checked the frequency, they were all 48kHZ files. AKG studio headphones here. But yeah in theory it shouldn't make much of a difference. Also keep in mind everybody hears these things differently. Maybe some of us have bat genes after all.

  7. #9622
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    there's more audible difference in bitrate/codec used but also in how the music was recorded than in sample rate once you get to 44.1 khz. It's such a small difference it just looks like they did that on dvd/bluray technology just to be able to say "look, better than CD audio quality".
    But also remember that even if we can't hear above 22 khz, those samples are still there to improve the overall resulting sound and warmth. You definately can hear the difference on the same song at 22, 32 and 44.1 khz that's for sure. Even uncompressed.
    Last edited by chilled; 06-22-2019 at 08:38 AM.
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    Raging in the Streets Sik's Avatar
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    Probably derailing too much at this point, but not gonna lie: I was under the impression that the real reason why everybody moved to 48000 Hz and multiples is just because it made things easier long term (44100 Hz was an awkward number that had more to do with a trade-off between quality and space usage on CDs than anything else 44KHz to cover just enough for the hearing limit for most people (22KHz) + 100Hz to give some tolerance for the low-pass filters used to remove noise from the DAC output).

    48KHz as "better than CD quality!" may make for a sneaky marketing gimmick, but generally it's much more relevant from a practical viewpoint (since, well, a round number is much easier to do math with).

    EDIT: amusingly in 44100Hz's favor though, it's both a multiple of 60 (73550) and 50 (88250), which can matter for NTSC vs PAL differences if you ever feel like exploiting it!

    EDIT 2: also rereading, I missed a misunderstanding:
    Quote Originally Posted by MushaAleste View Post
    Only bats and dogs can hear in a range that high. They say. On the other hand, i used to have a couple of MP3 files that stood out in quality from all the other 320KB files i had. They sounded audibly clearer, with slightly more fidelity and punch to them. It made no sense really. And when i checked the frequency, they were all 48kHZ files. AKG studio headphones here. But yeah in theory it shouldn't make much of a difference. Also keep in mind everybody hears these things differently. Maybe some of us have bat genes after all.
    Don't forget that 48 KHz is the sampling rate. To make a waveform you need at least two samples, so the maximum frequency you can hear from it is 24 KHz. That's pushing it, but there are some people who can hear that high pitch.
    Last edited by Sik; 06-22-2019 at 11:46 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MushaAleste View Post
    Only bats and dogs can hear in a range that high. They say. On the other hand, i used to have a couple of MP3 files that stood out in quality from all the other 320KB files i had. They sounded audibly clearer, with slightly more fidelity and punch to them. It made no sense really. And when i checked the frequency, they were all 48kHZ files. AKG studio headphones here. But yeah in theory it shouldn't make much of a difference. Also keep in mind everybody hears these things differently. Maybe some of us have bat genes after all.
    That is more likely the result of the source material or encoder settings used. No MP3 file is going to preserve much content over 16 KHz because the last scalefactor band (21) doesn't actually have a scalefactor, so it will always have the fewest bits of all frequency bands.

    The only area where a 48 KHz MP3 could have improved quality is with the short blocks, they have a slightly shorter length (by a matter of less than a millisecond) at 48 KHz so it's possible you could reduce pre-echo artifacts. Good if you listen to nothing but harpsichords, I guess. Back in reality I have yet to see a single ABX test where this is audible or even any encoder that is optimized for this behavior at 48 KHz.
    Last edited by axel; 06-22-2019 at 11:41 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by chilled View Post
    there's more audible difference in bitrate/codec used but also in how the music was recorded than in sample rate once you get to 44.1 khz. It's such a small difference it just looks like they did that on dvd/bluray technology just to be able to say "look, better than CD audio quality".
    But also remember that even if we can't hear above 22 khz, those samples are still there to improve the overall resulting sound and warmth. You definately can hear the difference on the same song at 22, 32 and 44.1 khz that's for sure. Even uncompressed.
    How about 44.1 vs. 48?

  11. #9626
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sik View Post
    To make a waveform you need at least two samples, so the maximum frequency you can hear from it is 24 KHz
    Oh ok, I think I didn't knew that. Now I feel stupid. That'd explain why I can easliy spot a 22 o 32 khz recording: because it's goes below human hearing threshold (22 khz and decreasing from when you are 25 years and onwards). Anyway @axel no I can't hear the difference between the same WAV/PCM of a song at 44.1 and 48 khz. But it's patent with music below 44.1
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    Quote Originally Posted by chilled View Post
    Oh ok, I think I didn't knew that. Now I feel stupid. That'd explain why I can easliy spot a 22 o 32 khz recording: because it's goes below human hearing threshold (22 khz and decreasing from when you are 25 years and onwards). Anyway @axel no I can't hear the difference between the same WAV/PCM of a song at 44.1 and 48 khz. But it's patent with music below 44.1
    Yep, here some further reading if you're interested, say hey to Nyquist for me.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nyquis...mpling_theorem

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