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Thread: Paprium: Official Thread

  1. #1501
    VA1LT CHIP ENABLED Master of Shinobi OverDrone's Avatar
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    Beat 'em up will always be the default term for me, but belt scroller is nice to use now since 3D came along and confused things for people, it describes the genre well.

    It's all about how these games play after all, and the enemy management, spacing etc in a true belt scroller is different to the way a 3D brawler works.

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    Social Justice Ninja Master of Shinobi IrishNinja's Avatar
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    can't one just say 2D or 3D beat-em-up? Devil May Cry/Bayonetta are presumably examples of the latter.
    i guess belt scroller throws me off since it sounds a bit like it'd be on-rails, and also i swear i only heard the term like last year


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    I remain nonsequitur Shining Hero sheath's Avatar
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    I don't consider Bayonetta or Devil May Cry Beat-em ups at all, they are Zelda 64 style 3D Adventure games with 'tude and a touch of Resident Evil's cruddy camera. Dynamite Deka, Zombie Revenge, Sword of the Berserk, Shenmue's 70 man battle, Buffy the Vampire Slayer, Spike Out Battle Street, Golden Axe Beast Rider, Anarchy Reigns and the Batman Arkham games in challenge mode are 3D Beat-em ups.

    I'm still on the fence about God Hand, I'm more willing to put it into whatever 3D genre(s) Shinobi PS2, Phantom Dust, Blood Will Tell, Ninja Gaiden Black and the Otogi games fit in. Off hand I would call these 3D Story Action Platformers, although I haven't completed any of them beside's Black to make a complete assessment. The games in the first paragraph are much more like 2D Beat-em ups than these story driven games with item hunting, power up needs, door unlocking and whatever other gimmicks they threw in.
    "... If Sony reduced the price of the Playstation, Sega would have to follow suit in order to stay competitive, but Saturn's high manufacturing cost would then translate into huge losses for the company." p170 Revolutionaries at Sony.

    "We ... put Sega out of the hardware business ..." Peter Dille senior vice president of marketing at Sony Computer Entertainment

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    WCPO Agent Orchid87's Avatar
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    Isn't everyone call these games "brawlers" now?
    _____________________________________


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    Social Justice Ninja Master of Shinobi IrishNinja's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sheath View Post
    I don't consider Bayonetta or Devil May Cry Beat-em ups at all, they are Zelda 64 style 3D Adventure games with 'tude and a touch of Resident Evil's cruddy camera. Dynamite Deka, Zombie Revenge, Sword of the Berserk, Shenmue's 70 man battle, Buffy the Vampire Slayer, Spike Out Battle Street, Golden Axe Beast Rider, Anarchy Reigns and the Batman Arkham games in challenge mode are 3D Beat-em ups.

    I'm still on the fence about God Hand, I'm more willing to put it into whatever 3D genre(s) Shinobi PS2, Phantom Dust, Blood Will Tell, Ninja Gaiden Black and the Otogi games fit in. Off hand I would call these 3D Story Action Platformers, although I haven't completed any of them beside's Black to make a complete assessment. The games in the first paragraph are much more like 2D Beat-em ups than these story driven games with item hunting, power up needs, door unlocking and whatever other gimmicks they threw in.
    see, this is why these things are subjective, cause nearly everything you listed is a beat-em-up by me, especially God Hand. Shinobi, Blood Will Tell & some others less so, but even then it's an odd distinction i'm making; i can't sit here & say it's cause they're not using their bare fists, cause neither did Golden Axe & others.


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    I remain nonsequitur Shining Hero sheath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IrishNinja View Post
    see, this is why these things are subjective, cause nearly everything you listed is a beat-em-up by me, especially God Hand. Shinobi, Blood Will Tell & some others less so, but even then it's an odd distinction i'm making; i can't sit here & say it's cause they're not using their bare fists, cause neither did Golden Axe & others.
    Right, there was also "Hack n Slash" floating around, but the mechanics were the same. I try to look at the gameplay, or more specifically what most of the gameplay time is taken up by. If it is wandering around in a 3D environment looking for stuff, with periodic breaks of enemies coming in replete with some sort of barrier thrown up, it isn't a Beat-em Up in the vein of Double Dragon, Final Fight, Golden Axe or Streets of Rage.

    Games that add wandering around for significant portions of the gameplay can be called something else, and that is okay.
    "... If Sony reduced the price of the Playstation, Sega would have to follow suit in order to stay competitive, but Saturn's high manufacturing cost would then translate into huge losses for the company." p170 Revolutionaries at Sony.

    "We ... put Sega out of the hardware business ..." Peter Dille senior vice president of marketing at Sony Computer Entertainment

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    Social Justice Ninja Master of Shinobi IrishNinja's Avatar
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    okay, i can kinda dig using design as part of the metric - so then linearity would favor a beat-em-up?


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    Wildside Expert Groovemaster303's Avatar
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    Being from the UK and indeed growing up owning a Megadrive through the early 90's I've always known 'Beat Em Ups' as exactly that. Games like Street Fighter 2 were always called '1 On 1 Fighters'. Pretty much every gaming magazine back then said that too. I've never heard the phrase 'Beat Em All' before.

    All these excessive names from this specific genre of games nowadays reminds me of when dance music started creating all kinds of strange names like 'handbag house' and 'hardbag' The craziest being 'Nose bleed Techno'.

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    Master of Shinobi PHANTOM2040's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sheath View Post
    Right, there was also "Hack n Slash" floating around, but the mechanics were the same. I try to look at the gameplay, or more specifically what most of the gameplay time is taken up by.
    I agree with this. That would be like saying that Samurai Shodown is not a fighting game.

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    Outrunner tbp's Avatar
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    So Project Y will be a Double Dragon like with a Cyber Post-Apocalyptic environment
    I found the title : "Streets of Evermore, the secret of Lee Brothers"

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    I remain nonsequitur Shining Hero sheath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IrishNinja View Post
    okay, i can kinda dig using design as part of the metric - so then linearity would favor a beat-em-up?
    Not necessarily, but yes. To me, the background scrolling becomes, well, a background element to the main event, near constant fighting with more than two enemies. Games that play like DMC or Zelda 64 have more exploration, or equal parts exploration, puzzle solving and whatnot, with fighting and remind me more of Isometric overhead games like Beyond Oasis, Blood Omen, and even The Immortal than a game that emphasizes group fighting mechanics nearly all the time.

    God Hand is also nearly all fighting, as is DMC, so an argument obviously can be made for them to be Beat-em Ups as well, I just think it has more in common with Overhead Action games than with Streets of Rage, Double Dragon or Final Fight. Otogi and Ninja Gaiden Black are also nearly constant fighting broken up with LONG segments of wandering around problem solving. Shinobi PS2 is just a super tough hardcore 3D platformer with lots of fighting and the Tate gimmick.
    "... If Sony reduced the price of the Playstation, Sega would have to follow suit in order to stay competitive, but Saturn's high manufacturing cost would then translate into huge losses for the company." p170 Revolutionaries at Sony.

    "We ... put Sega out of the hardware business ..." Peter Dille senior vice president of marketing at Sony Computer Entertainment

  12. #1512
    VA1LT CHIP ENABLED Master of Shinobi OverDrone's Avatar
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    Then to confuse the matter of classification further you have the single plane beat em' ups like Crude Buster, Ninja Warriors, Comix Zone and so on. That's why belt scroller describes it's own particular sub-genre perfectly as being distinct from these or other deviations.

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    Master of Shinobi SpaceFlea's Avatar
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    "Belt scroll" does not provide any additional descriptive value. It is of no informative use, and sounds horrific to boot (like nails on a chalkboard). I truly wish people would stop perpetuating it. The term just materialized out of nowhere a year or so ago and has infected the lexicon by adding unnecessary redundancy at best. It's even worse than people calling beat 'em ups, beat 'em alls, which is infuriating in its own right and exploded into relative existence around the same time. Seriously, I had never heard either of those terms in life or online "ever" until recently and in regard to this game.
    Be Attitude For Gains!

  14. #1514
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpaceFlea View Post
    "Belt scroll" does not provide any additional descriptive value. It is of no informative use, and sounds horrific to boot (like nails on a chalkboard). I truly wish people would stop perpetuating it. The term just materialized out of nowhere a year or so ago and has infected the lexicon by adding unnecessary redundancy at best. It's even worse than people calling beat 'em ups, beat 'em alls, which is infuriating in its own right and exploded into relative existence around the same time. Seriously, I had never heard either of those terms in life or online "ever" until recently and in regard to this game.
    It's always been the term for beat'em up in japan. I've heard it 5 years ago when trying to find beat'em ups arcade pcb's in Tokyo, no one understood me but the titles I mentioned they all went Bellt-u Scrollll.... so I have been using it ever since for the multi-plane scrolling, I think it's an good description.

    I don't count DMC, Bayonetta, Blood Will Tell... etc to much puzzle solving and the occasional platforming (especially for Shinobi).

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    Wildside Expert Folco's Avatar
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    I'm really happy new high quality games are being developed for these legendary consoles (MS, SNES).
    The tech side (graphics, sound) seems top notch so I hope they will reserve the same polish for the gameplay.

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