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Thread: Paprium: Official Thread

  1. #9001
    Raging in the Streets Sik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by axel View Post
    Was the 68k (with all of 64k of RAM) supposed to be able to connect to the Megawire (or use Bluetooth?), interface with an app on a phone or tablet and download new content all on its own?
    To be fair, replace that setup with the Mega Modem and you basically described how Game Toshokan worked.

    EDIT: it's OVER NINE THOUSAAAAAND posts

  2. #9002
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sik View Post
    To be fair, replace that setup with the Mega Modem and you basically described how Game Toshokan worked.

    EDIT: it's OVER NINE THOUSAAAAAND posts
    Yes it's been done, but for a beat 'em up it seems like an insane amount of work to reinvent the Mega Modem.

    I wonder if at any point Fonzie ever considered turning his Datenmeister into a lock-on cart with its own power supply, ethernet jack and video mixing cable? That really seems to be where this was headed.

  3. #9003
    Raging in the Streets Sik's Avatar
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    And you just delayed Paprium by two more years :v

    Next we know, Paprium will have turned into its own full blown platform, with the beat'em-up being the sample game offered for free with the expensive cartridge.

  4. #9004
    BANG Wildside Expert Gadispalembang's Avatar
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    Gonna delay Paprium some more here.

    The sprites are of inconsistent quality
    Produce a more Jesper Kyd and Chris Huelsbeck styled soundtrack
    Change the game title (This'll add six months to production)

  5. #9005
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sik View Post
    And you just delayed Paprium by two more years :v

    Next we know, Paprium will have turned into its own full blown platform, with the beat'em-up being the sample game offered for free with the expensive cartridge.
    LOL
    Well in the long run it might have been easier.
    Paprium could have been just like the Pier Solar carts with 64mb of ROM (although hopefully without the compromises of the original design) then you feed that into Datenmeister cart, which would decompress the data into its own RAM.

    Rather than coming up with a new DSP or FPGA I would just use a Raspberry Pi running Linux, that way you already have networking included. Since the Datenmeister cart can read Genesis games you can also sell it as a way to back up your own collection, in addition to acting like a Game Genie.

    Plus, since the Paprium cart is unusable without the Datenmeister, you already have your own anti-bootlegging measures included!
    Watermelon Games should have hired me as a consultant, I could have made them a fortune.

  6. #9006
    Hedgehog-in-Training Hedgehog-in-TrainingRoad Rasher
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    These documentaries probably caused a couple more year delays. "I'll show them, I'll show them all *evil laugh*"

  7. #9007
    Raging in the Streets Thunderblaze16's Avatar
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    POSTS ON THIS THREAD ARE OFFICIALLY OVER 9000!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    ***Visualshock! Speedshock! Soundshock! Now is time to the 68000 heart on fire!***
    http://ban-game-4.gamewise.co/musha-metallic-uniframe-super-hybrid-armor_banner65-61867-full.jpeg

  8. #9008
    Hedgehog-in-Training Hedgehog-in-TrainingWildside Expert majinga's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stika View Post
    Part 2 of my Paprium Documentary will be out this sunday:
    Watched!

    Basically they started from the end. They first created the packaging, the manuals, the music for a sound chip that did not even know if it would work or not and for games that did not even exist.

    And the few people who report having dealt with the extra chip do not seem to know anything about how and if it works with the Mega Drive.

  9. #9009
    Hedgehog-in-Training Hedgehog-in-TrainingWildside Expert Stifu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by majinga View Post
    Basically they started from the end. They first created the packaging, the manuals, the music for a sound chip that did not even know if it would work or not and for games that did not even exist.
    Don't forget the release party. Now that the disappointment has passed, let's take a moment to fully appreciate the humor in holding a release party for a broken tech demo. You can't top that.

  10. #9010
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    I have been thinking to login and reply to this thread for a very long time now but the whole situation is fucked beyond recognition so probably it's not worth to spend energy in this.. Still I feel some clarification is overdue.

    I created the project Y devcarts. I mean, the initial design versions before quitting this for my own sanity.
    (The cart that was shown at the party was made by somebody I have no clue who he is, not sure if it's a complete design of my initial project or if it's a different thing entirely, I reckon it might still use the same DSP and HW concept, but... it's just a rumour).
    The DSP was chosen by me becuase of the concept that audio expansion was the main task of this processor, this is why I didn't pick an ARM CPU. The TMS320VC5501 was in the third grand revision of the board, initially it was the VC5401 on rev0/1 which is even weaker.

    Now, of course when the there is not a single line of code I can't grasp how good or bad a CPU is in terms of real world performance, specially with complex bus interactions (the DSP did cycle stealing to access the "ROM"/CPLD regs because the MD cannot be waiting for data).
    From the specs it doesn't sound too bad for what it is and the its cost: upto 300MHz, 2MBytes of SDRAM (external), 32kBytes of SRAM, 16kBytes of cache.
    TmEE started writing some small testing programs for the processor, accessing main "ROM" memory, testing SDRAM, blinking LED and even steering the DAC, this was the point when he started to realize the CPU was bullshit for stuff that is not pure math, which he told me:
    "Hey Jorge this DSP sucks" and I was like:
    "ok, what can we do to improve the cart subsystem?"
    Sharkfin DSP was his suggestion and additionally some sort of dual port memory (like 32kByte) to act as a bridge between the megadrive and the processor to have proper sound and art buffering.
    Problem was that, even the allocation of such memory would imply another redesign of the cart with a more advanced CPLD (it was no FPGA, it was a MAXII).
    We put these facts on the table to Fonzie and he rejected them, the cart was already too expensive so things must proceed the way they are.

    The cart core functionality worked (USB loading, DSP and 68k accessing the game binary with cycle stealing, internal communication interface between the megadrive and the coprocessor, banking registers, DAC and so on) what didn't was the whole "package together", because there was no comprehensive tester program (or game, as I said in the video, I never got any engine of any sort) to make a sort of survival testing round where everything is banged to death in all possible edge cases. There was also the issue that the hardwares were limited, I only have 2 MD systems (my personal ones) and one working cart.

    I was working on this from home (In parallel with a few other things) for about 3 years and what I got in return was a rigol osciloscope which proved very helpful, but not enough. Oh and no compensation whatsoever.

    This was bascially around year 2013

    If you guys have further questions feel free to ask.

  11. #9011
    Hedgehog-in-Training Hedgehog-in-TrainingWildside Expert majinga's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jorge Nuno View Post
    I have been thinking to login and reply to this thread for a very long time now but the whole situation is fucked beyond recognition so probably it's not worth to spend energy in this.. Still I feel some clarification is overdue.
    Your explanations are really welcome!

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorge Nuno View Post
    ... le line of code I can't grasp how good or bad a CPU is in terms of real world performance, specially with complex bus interactions (the DSP did cycle stealing to access the "ROM"/CPLD regs because the MD cannot be waiting for data).
    Basically you are saying that the DSP can enhance the sound, but make the overall MD performance even worse

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorge Nuno View Post
    Problem was that, even the allocation of such memory would imply another redesign of the cart with a more advanced CPLD (it was no FPGA, it was a MAXII).
    We put these facts on the table to Fonzie and he rejected them, the cart was already too expensive so things must proceed the way they are.
    This sounds realistic, the TMS320VC5501 is expensive even in quantities, a CPLD is a good choice in place of an FPGA. But I think the cart still expensive, the end price of the game don't match with the extra costs of the hardware. And with all the work needed develop something for a new hardware like this.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorge Nuno View Post
    I was working on this from home (In parallel with a few other things) for about 3 years and what I got in return was a rigol osciloscope which proved very helpful, but not enough. Oh and no compensation whatsoever.
    So, like others people you are not paid. Is very sad to hear this.
    But, if nobody was paid where all the money gone?

  12. #9012
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    Nonono, the MD performance stays the way it is, I mean it's unstoppeable in a way that when the 68k/z80/VDP request data, it must be provided it right away (I mean not necessarly immediately, but it needs to meet the fixed timing window), and if a DSP ROM access was underway I was interrupting it to fetch the data that the MD wants. The DSP memory access would restart later.

  13. #9013
    Hedgehog-in-Training Hedgehog-in-TrainingWildside Expert majinga's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jorge Nuno View Post
    Nonono, the MD performance stays the way it is, I mean it's unstoppeable in a way that when the 68k/z80/VDP request data, it must be provided it right away (I mean not necessarly immediately, but it needs to meet the fixed timing window), and if a DSP ROM access was underway I was interrupting it to fetch the data that the MD wants. The DSP memory access would restart later.
    Ok, I thought they will fighting for the memory access

  14. #9014
    Megadrive Owner Since1991 Wildside Expert
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    Quote Originally Posted by NeoVamp View Post
    I could totally see that being done.

    Papi : You're cornered Fonz, give me my game.
    Fonzie : NO! I'D SOONER BURN THIS COMPANY TO THE GROUND THAN GIVE UP MY ONLY WORKING COPY OF THE GAME!
    *Fonzie throws molotov cocktail to the ground and everything starts to burn*
    LEVEL 8 : FRIED GREEN WATERMELONS *Escape the burning WM HQ and finish off Fonzie once and for all*
    Final boss fight against Fonzie (may or may not be in cheap chinese mecha suit)
    Ending picture of Papi proudly holding the game up into the air!!!!
    pic of papi at home with sour face, the game is not very good.
    This game... PapiRium has to happen.... I genuinely think it will be better than Paprium....

  15. #9015
    Training-in-Hedgehog Hedgehog-in-TrainingWildside Expert tokay's Avatar
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    @jorge: does this look like your work?

    Attachment 14802

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