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Thread: Paprium: Official Thread

  1. #9916
    Hero of Algol
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    I assume the lower density disc is easier to read since you'd need less precision to find the tracks.

  2. #9917
    WaterMelon Road Rasher XGoldenboyX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mad Moham View Post
    If so, what's delaying the game's release? I'll be the first to apologise if Luis turns out to have told the truth.
    I did say the truth, not my responsibility if WM is irresponsible.

  3. #9918
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ecco View Post
    Just for clarity though, Pier Solar's CD would actually start to work perfectly for most people, once they burned a CD-R copy of it. So in this case, that WAS the consistent solution. (I'm also not very convinced that burning CD's causes so many random problems, as many people think... but that's a tangent.)

    I don't think we ever figured out exactly what the root of the problem was, for Pier Solar's printed discs... but the solution sure was easy enough.

    Maybe some quirk with how the official discs were printed or something. IDK how it makes sense that a simple copy of the same disc could suddenly work perfectly, while the original won't...
    Just to add to this part...

    I recently bought FX Unit Yuki for the PCE. It works fine on my TurboDuo but the last 2 or three audio tracks on the disc will just stop playing after about 10 sec or so. I popped the disc into my computer and the audio tracks read just fine without issue. But I did notice that there was so much data on the disc that it measures out to about 723mb or so. On a hunch I burned a copy of the original on my PC at 8x speed (Lowest my burner will go) onto some TDK CD-Rs I still have. Popped that in and it worked great without any issues! So just like you mentioned, my burning a copy of the original at what I presume to be a more reliable speed and likely better quality media allows the game to work properly. I don't think I tried that with Pier Solar but now that I have a SegaCD Model 2 I use instead of my model 1, it isn't an issue.

    I guess my point is that it wasn't so much the size of the media being used...it appears to be how the media was created that matters most and it would seem that my FX Unit Yuki wasn't made quite well enough for my actual TurboDUO to read it 100% as it should whereas my PC could read it fully and make a better quality copy (If that is possible?).

    And to answer what was asked before..both my Model 1 and model 2 Sega CD systems have been fully recapped by myself within the past 2 years. In the case of when I did the Model 1, I also replaced the caps on the CD drive mech and yeah...that wasn't a good idea. Although the caps were identical values, it changed the laser diode enough that is literally burned out on the first power up and was just dead. Since then, I've decided I'm not replacing the caps on the laser assemblies. I didn't have that issue when I replaced the caps in my TurboDUO about 5 - 6 years ago in fact it worked much better in seek times etc after I did that.

  4. #9919
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sik View Post
    I just assumed 500MB was a typo.

    Just checked and the Sega CD docs state… conflicting limits. At points it says 60:04 and at points it says 540MB (though the exact amount really depends on whether it's an audio or data track, due to the latter having more error correction). I'm not sure if it's really enforced by the BIOS or if it was Sega trying to cover up their asses in case some large disc was unreliable (the docs also bring up 20 minutes discs, which I suppose are minidiscs?).

    The CD controller itself isn't the issue, since if you try to by-pass the BIOS and use it directly, it'll happily take some absurd timestamps with no problem (and it lets you reach some areas that are apparently hard to access with common CD drives on computers?). I have no clue how it reacts to multisession discs though (as it predates them by a few years), and I know some badly mastered discs would have a separate session for every single track.

    …how many tracks does the Pier Solar disc have?


    EDIT: for the sake of trivia, the LaserActive apparently is also like that and it also applies to the laserdisc-specific stuff (oh boy) and Nemesis had been using it to make dumps of laserdiscs in general. Supposedly the LaserActive is a low-end drive as far as laserdiscs go but it seems to be surprisingly good for dumping :​P

    EDIT 2:



    EDIT 3: OK I see how they got to the 540MB number… 60 minutes worth of data is 540000 KB (・_・)
    Thanks, I guess that makes sense I just can't think of any other full size CD drive with that kind of limitation.
    My Pier Solar disc has 4 tracks, the total size is 567 MB but most of that is taken up by track 1, which is 488 MB.

  5. #9920
    Hedgehog-in-Training Hedgehog-in-Training steel's Avatar
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    one of the most annoying thing to me with Watermellon forum down is that I can read posts of some friends that I made on that forum,

    Uipneu my friend I hope you be good in somewhere in france! the TRUE DECTETIVE.
    miss you brothers! Goofy, Mercutio and so many others! I hope We can talk soon

  6. #9921
    The Cat in the Hat Shining Hero NeoVamp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by steel View Post
    miss you brothers!
    Your brothers should just register HERE! we have to stand strong against scam artists like Fonzie!!

  7. #9922
    Death Bringer Raging in the Streets Black_Tiger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CrossBow View Post
    Just to add to this part...

    I recently bought FX Unit Yuki for the PCE. It works fine on my TurboDuo but the last 2 or three audio tracks on the disc will just stop playing after about 10 sec or so. I popped the disc into my computer and the audio tracks read just fine without issue. But I did notice that there was so much data on the disc that it measures out to about 723mb or so. On a hunch I burned a copy of the original on my PC at 8x speed (Lowest my burner will go) onto some TDK CD-Rs I still have. Popped that in and it worked great without any issues! So just like you mentioned, my burning a copy of the original at what I presume to be a more reliable speed and likely better quality media allows the game to work properly. I don't think I tried that with Pier Solar but now that I have a SegaCD Model 2 I use instead of my model 1, it isn't an issue.

    I guess my point is that it wasn't so much the size of the media being used...it appears to be how the media was created that matters most and it would seem that my FX Unit Yuki wasn't made quite well enough for my actual TurboDUO to read it 100% as it should whereas my PC could read it fully and make a better quality copy (If that is possible?).

    And to answer what was asked before..both my Model 1 and model 2 Sega CD systems have been fully recapped by myself within the past 2 years. In the case of when I did the Model 1, I also replaced the caps on the CD drive mech and yeah...that wasn't a good idea. Although the caps were identical values, it changed the laser diode enough that is literally burned out on the first power up and was just dead. Since then, I've decided I'm not replacing the caps on the laser assemblies. I didn't have that issue when I replaced the caps in my TurboDUO about 5 - 6 years ago in fact it worked much better in seek times etc after I did that.
    A big part of it is the condition of 30 year old hardware. I had my TurboDuo recapped and the laser adjusted by Keith Courage 4 or 5 years ago. I asked for a new laser but he said it wasn't necessary. I still haven't gotten around to repairing the large hole in the shell, so it's likely been collecting dust inside this whole time.

    I haven't experienced any redbook issues with my copies of the game, but have only played through to the end on the final version a few times. My Duo also loads Gate of Thunder seemingly instantly.

    I did experience what you describe with an old PCE game from bitd, while playing on my former IFU combo. But the game worked fine in my Duo.
    Quote Originally Posted by year2kill06
    everyone knows nintendo is far way cooler than sega just face it nintendo has more better games and originals

  8. #9923
    Outrunner CrossBow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Black_Tiger View Post
    A big part of it is the condition of 30 year old hardware. I had my TurboDuo recapped and the laser adjusted by Keith Courage 4 or 5 years ago. I asked for a new laser but he said it wasn't necessary. I still haven't gotten around to repairing the large hole in the shell, so it's likely been collecting dust inside this whole time.

    I haven't experienced any redbook issues with my copies of the game, but have only played through to the end on the final version a few times. My Duo also loads Gate of Thunder seemingly instantly.

    I did experience what you describe with an old PCE game from bitd, while playing on my former IFU combo. But the game worked fine in my Duo.
    The specific track where I first noticed it was during the cutscenes. It would play the audio for about 10 seconds or so and suddenly just cut out? It never did this during actual game play and only on the cutscenes. I then went into the Jukebox mode and noticed that the cutscene music is like the 2nd to last track on the list. Both it and the last track would randomly just cut out around 10 seconds of playing. None of the other audio tracks do this it is only the last two.

    But they do play fine in my computer. And the burned clone I made from that disc does play without issues in my TurboDUO. So it has to be something with the pressing of that particular copy I have that my PC can read through but the actual TurboDUO has issue with on those last 2 audio tracks.

    I would blame my laser assembly if not for the fact that those are the only two tracks that do this and none of the others do. Also the fact that my burned copy of the game plays without issue on my Duo as well. So it all points to the actual disc perhaps not being pressed as well or something happening towards the end of the disc data those tracks are in. The disc looks fine physically so whatever it is, isn't visually obvious.

  9. #9924
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    Quote Originally Posted by NeoVamp View Post
    Your brothers should just register HERE! we have to stand strong against scam artists like Fonzie!!

  10. #9925
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    Wait a minute, does it mean I can't use 700Mb discs? Those are the only kind I can find here, not that I'd dare recording a 723 mb image though...
    Deep into weird, worrying and scary craze.

  11. #9926
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    Quote Originally Posted by CrazyMonkey View Post
    Wait a minute, does it mean I can't use 700Mb discs? Those are the only kind I can find here, not that I'd dare recording a 723 mb image though...
    I'm talking about a different game than Pier Solar and different console as well. I would think that using 700mb CD-Rs is fine, but it would be best to keep the data to within the original Sega CD specs of just over 500mb actually being recorded. The extra 200mb on current CD-Rs is recorded in space that was deemed dead on older discs so I'm pretty sure that if you took a 500mb CD-R and a 700 and burn the same amount of data to each..like say 480mb. That both of them would show the same amount of space in size from the inner ring outward being used. Also important to set the option to finalize the disc when making such burns or at least I've always done that.

  12. #9927
    Raging in the Streets Sik's Avatar
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    In other words: it's hit and miss.

    There's also the problem where even if the CD drive is up to it, the BIOS may not, and these add-ons saw lots of BIOS revisions. This also probably contributes to why model 1 Mega CD tends to struggle more than model 2. On top of that, if you're providing your own BIOS (e.g. through a flashcart), be careful because a bunch of the dumped ones are buggy prototypes (they will work on retail hardware, but are more prone to glitching up on some edge cases).

  13. #9928
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sik View Post
    In other words: it's hit and miss.

    There's also the problem where even if the CD drive is up to it, the BIOS may not, and these add-ons saw lots of BIOS revisions. This also probably contributes to why model 1 Mega CD tends to struggle more than model 2. On top of that, if you're providing your own BIOS (e.g. through a flashcart), be careful because a bunch of the dumped ones are buggy prototypes (they will work on retail hardware, but are more prone to glitching up on some edge cases).
    As far as I know there are only two prototype mega cd bios dumped, and one of them was released only recently...

    However it is true that they made a buttload of revisions. The service manuals even state to always burn the latest ones when servicing.

  14. #9929
    Hedgehog-in-Training Hedgehog-in-TrainingWildside Expert MushaAleste's Avatar
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    If i would be Fonzie, i would monitor this thread once in a while. You know, just for shits and giggles. Trust no one :o

  15. #9930
    Hedgehog-in-Training Hedgehog-in-Training inqualls's Avatar
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    I can't imagine how Luis feels along with the others who contributed artistically to Paprium. Personally, I want to see this game release just so all of the amazing art and music doesn't go to waste. It's really frustrating to see all the great talent involved here and still no FINAL product to showcase it.

    Anyway, with the Magical Game Factory website being down for over a month now and Fonzie going quiet all Summer I've finally decided to join the forums here. So, I just wanted to say "hi" to those of you who have merged to this forum from MGF. We are an extremely patient group aren't we?

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