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Thread: Comparison of 6th generation game console hardware

  1. #361
    I remain nonsequitur Shining Hero sheath's Avatar
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    Okay trekkies, why don't you put my argument into your own words?
    "... If Sony reduced the price of the Playstation, Sega would have to follow suit in order to stay competitive, but Saturn's high manufacturing cost would then translate into huge losses for the company." p170 Revolutionaries at Sony.

    "We ... put Sega out of the hardware business ..." Peter Dille senior vice president of marketing at Sony Computer Entertainment

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    Hero of Algol TrekkiesUnite118's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sheath View Post
    Okay trekkies, why don't you put my argument into your own words?
    Which one? You've made multiple different ones in this thread. Your overall argument appears to be that the Dreamcast could have held it's own against the other 3 6th gen consoles. That I don't disagree with entirely. What I disagree with are the smaller arguments you are making to try and prove that argument. The ones where you claim all games were hovering around 1 million polygons per second, that Consoles were more powerful than PCs when they launched until recently, etc.

    You claim you want facts for history, but it's very clear you instead want to cherry pick the facts that prove your preconceived conclusion that the Dreamcast could do anything the PS2 could do.

  3. #363
    I remain nonsequitur Shining Hero sheath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TrekkiesUnite118 View Post
    Which one? You've made multiple different ones in this thread. Your overall argument appears to be that the Dreamcast could have held it's own against the other 3 6th gen consoles. That I don't disagree with entirely. What I disagree with are the smaller arguments you are making to try and prove that argument. The ones where you claim all games were hovering around 1 million polygons per second, that Consoles were more powerful than PCs when they launched until recently, etc.

    You claim you want facts for history, but it's very clear you instead want to cherry pick the facts that prove your preconceived conclusion that the Dreamcast could do anything the PS2 could do.
    Exactly, or at least mostly so. Back on topic then? Or do we all really need to talk about me and my alleged crimes against the gaming community instead? How much more powerful are the Gamecube and Xbox than the PS2? What could we call the average polygon count per second for the generation? Is it sacrilege against the almighty PS2 to even ask?

    Yes, oh yes, I do believe completely that these assertions against my person and personal ethic are caused by my continued inquiry into the sacred cow that is Sony and their Playstations. I could say and prove every day that I don't care whether their product ends up on top, and Sony's own loyalists will continue to fight my every post with unending zeal. PS2, polygon monster of the generation, go.
    "... If Sony reduced the price of the Playstation, Sega would have to follow suit in order to stay competitive, but Saturn's high manufacturing cost would then translate into huge losses for the company." p170 Revolutionaries at Sony.

    "We ... put Sega out of the hardware business ..." Peter Dille senior vice president of marketing at Sony Computer Entertainment

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    Hero of Algol TrekkiesUnite118's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sheath View Post
    Exactly, or at least mostly so. Back on topic then? Or do we all really need to talk about me and my alleged crimes against the gaming community instead? How much more powerful are the Gamecube and Xbox than the PS2? What could we call the average polygon count per second for the generation? Is it sacrilege against the almighty PS2 to even ask?

    Yes, oh yes, I do believe completely that these assertions against my person and personal ethic are caused by my continued inquiry into the sacred cow that is Sony and their Playstations. I could say and prove every day that I don't care whether their product ends up on top, and Sony's own loyalists will continue to fight my every post with unending zeal. PS2, polygon monster of the generation, go.
    It has nothing to do with Sony. It has to do with the opinions you post as facts and the accusations of trolling you throw around when real facts get posted.

  5. #365
    Hard Road! ESWAT Veteran Barone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sheath View Post
    Yes, oh yes, I do believe completely that these assertions against my person and personal ethic are caused by my continued inquiry into the sacred cow that is Sony and their Playstations.
    Your Sony bs is getting old, really. You have overused it as an excuse for your bs statements and also to justify your self-pity.

    If you hate Sony it's your own problem not ours. In a technical discussion like this we really aren't interested in the Sony fanboys' messages which seem to be haunting you since your Usenet days. To make it clear for you: I DON'T GIVE A FUCK ABOUT YOUR PSYCHOLOGICAL PROBLEM WITH SONY.
    Please, make us a BIG favor by looking at the thread title and keeping your Sony's hatred agenda out of it.

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    Hero of Algol TrekkiesUnite118's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barone View Post
    Your Sony bs is getting old, really. You have overused it as an excuse for your bs statements and also to justify your self-pity.

    If you hate Sony, it's your own problem not ours. In a technical discussion we really aren't interested in the Sony fanboys' messages which seem to be haunting you since your Usenet days. To make it clear for you: I DON'T GIVE A FUCK ABOUT YOUR PSYCHOLOGICAL PROBLEM WITH SONY.
    Please, make us a BIG favor by looking at the thread title and keeping your Sony's hatred agenda out of it.


    I'd rep you if I could.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Barone View Post
    Your Sony bs is getting old, really. You have overused it as an excuse for your bs statements and also to justify your self-pity.

    If you hate Sony it's your own problem not ours. In a technical discussion like this we really aren't interested in the Sony fanboys' messages which seem to be haunting you since your Usenet days. To make it clear for you: I DON'T GIVE A FUCK ABOUT YOUR PSYCHOLOGICAL PROBLEM WITH SONY.
    Please, make us a BIG favor by looking at the thread title and keeping your Sony's hatred agenda out of it.
    Quote Originally Posted by TrekkiesUnite118 View Post


    I'd rep you if I could.
    I would rep you too, alas another "You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Barone again."

  8. #368
    I remain nonsequitur Shining Hero sheath's Avatar
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    Congratulations all. You have won nothing and contributed even less. Big Smile, big smile. I am really the ONLY ONE who is posting opinion as fact? Then you all have a party with no sources at all? Honestly? Do you even understand the word?

    Let me join in with the forum insanity and post a meme:


    Then we might have a little ceremony about how sheath tried to claim that the 32X should have replaced every hardware that ever came after it or before it. Once we are done oiling ourselves down in typical forumite fashion we could continue on about how sheath is stupid enough to think the Saturn and the PS2 represent the same philosophy development wise. What an idiot that sheath is, who never cites sources and never considers them. What an idiot that sheath is for even thinking about challenging the norm with a handful of questions.

    Man, it sure is a good thing you three have enlightened the group so. I might have made them all believe something about, ugh, something you can't express in a single post clearly.
    Last edited by sheath; 03-24-2014 at 11:47 PM.
    "... If Sony reduced the price of the Playstation, Sega would have to follow suit in order to stay competitive, but Saturn's high manufacturing cost would then translate into huge losses for the company." p170 Revolutionaries at Sony.

    "We ... put Sega out of the hardware business ..." Peter Dille senior vice president of marketing at Sony Computer Entertainment

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    Raging in the Streets azonicrider's Avatar
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    And how F-Zero GX wouldn't need to be downgraded to be put on Dreamcast.

    On another note, this is 6th generation discussion; has anyone confirmed that this can run on real hardware? polygon peak count is at about 1:45:
    Certified F-Zero GX fanboy

  10. #370
    I remain nonsequitur Shining Hero sheath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by azonicrider View Post
    And how F-Zero GX wouldn't need to be downgraded to be put on Dreamcast.
    Nope, just another example of somebody here running my statement to the absurd and then having a little selfie party. I'm not going to go back to see exactly what I wrote, but I have reiterated several times that I don't see why F-Zero GX would need to be massively downgraded to say Star Wars Racer or Magforce levels. This forum's penchant for arguing with straw men can't be stopped I suppose.

    Quote Originally Posted by azonicrider View Post
    On another note, this is 6th generation discussion; has anyone confirmed that this can run on real hardware? polygon peak count is at about 1:45:
    I don't think that video is technically impressive even for the Dreamcast. Without animated characters it is little more than a tech demo that I doubt has a very high peak or average polygon count.
    "... If Sony reduced the price of the Playstation, Sega would have to follow suit in order to stay competitive, but Saturn's high manufacturing cost would then translate into huge losses for the company." p170 Revolutionaries at Sony.

    "We ... put Sega out of the hardware business ..." Peter Dille senior vice president of marketing at Sony Computer Entertainment

  11. #371
    Hard Road! ESWAT Veteran Barone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sheath View Post
    Nope, just another example of somebody here running my statement to the absurd and then having a little selfie party.
    No, that's just another example of you saying shit and then trying to blame others for what you wrote.

    Quote Originally Posted by sheath View Post
    This forum's penchant for arguing with straw men can't be stopped I suppose.
    Oh, poor sheath... People are torturing the guy by quoting his own posts and exposing his bs.


    Quote Originally Posted by sheath View Post
    I'm not going to go back to see exactly what I wrote,
    I'll do it for you since you don't like to assume your own words:
    Quote Originally Posted by sheath View Post
    I'm not sure why F-Zero GX would need to have any polygon models reduced in a Dreamcast version. If properly programmed the textures shouldn't suffer too much on the PS2 either. Of course a typical Sega version on the PS2 would have just had the textures chopped down, and if it was a port from Gamecube it would have suffered in the framerate area too.
    Seriously though, F-Zero GX is awesome and all, but I wouldn't call it a technical marvel.
    Quote Originally Posted by sheath View Post
    I'm still not seeing anything that makes me think it would have to be clearly and obviously cut down on the Dreacmast side. I think Daytona 2001 is a good example of the Dreamcast doing something comparable with 20 cars on screen and a solid framerate, can't remember if it is 60FPS or 30FPS though. In F-Zero-GX most of the off track scenery looks pretty simple to me, Daytona has castles and all other kinds of roadside scenery too.

    Quote Originally Posted by sheath View Post
    but I have reiterated several times that I don't see why F-Zero GX would need to be massively downgraded to say Star Wars Racer or Magforce levels.
    Those quotes just show how you can easily compare apples to oranges and say that they aren't much different when the Dreamcast is involved in the discussion. And how you like to blame the others when you have your statements questioned or criticized.

    Anyway, F-Zero GX features a shitload of transparencies, lighting effects, bump-mapping and multi-tiered (I know you like this term) tracks unlike DC's Daytona or Star Wars Racer or Magforce (maybe some simple multi-tiered tracks here IDK) or any other DC racer that I can remeber. Daytona's cars are more complex 3D models but the trackside buildings in F-Zero GX look more detailed.
    So I'm still wondering how you can predict that a DC port would not suffer noticeable cuts...

    Here's the video once again if you want to tell us how DC's Daytona is comparable to it:


    Good luck...

  12. #372
    Outrunner
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    Didn't we just have a huge thread about dc/ps2/gc/xbox comparisons last month, with an actual game dev sharing us his experience on the subject?

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    Quote Originally Posted by zyrobs View Post
    Didn't we just have a huge thread about dc/ps2/gc/xbox comparisons last month, with an actual game dev sharing us his experience on the subject?
    Fair enough, I have deleted my post and moved it over to that thread.

  14. #374
    Hard Road! ESWAT Veteran Barone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zyrobs View Post
    Didn't we just have a huge thread about dc/ps2/gc/xbox comparisons last month, with an actual game dev sharing us his experience on the subject?
    We had but it was moved to Insert Coin for no good reason and got derailed and ruined to no end IMO.
    And this thread is older and supposed to be more "technical". In Insert Coin we can't ask people to have a brain in order to partake the discussion.


    Quote Originally Posted by stu View Post
    Fair enough, I have deleted my post and moved it over to that thread.
    I'd have kept that post here.

  15. #375
    Hero of Algol TrekkiesUnite118's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sheath View Post
    Congratulations all. You have won nothing and contributed even less. Big Smile, big smile.
    Someone's getting salty.

    Quote Originally Posted by sheath View Post
    I am really the ONLY ONE who is posting opinion as fact?
    No, we all do it once in a while when we get in the heat of an argument. The difference is that when the rest of us are faced with mounds of evidence that our opinion is factually wrong we admit that it was wrong. You typically don't. And when you do admit you're wrong, it only lasts a few posts before you back track and start posting that same opinion as fact again.

    Quote Originally Posted by sheath View Post
    Then you all have a party with no sources at all? Honestly? Do you even understand the word?
    We have posted sources. You've used your magical reality blinders to ignore them so many times though that we've given up on reposting them for the umpteenth time.

    Quote Originally Posted by sheath View Post
    Let me join in with the forum insanity and post a meme:
    Just because a gif is posted doesn't mean it's to troll you with a meme. Sometimes it's simply a more entertaining way of expressing one's self.

    Quote Originally Posted by sheath View Post
    What an idiot that sheath is for even thinking about challenging the norm with a handful of questions.
    If this was all you did we wouldn't be having this conversation.
    Last edited by TrekkiesUnite118; 09-12-2014 at 09:18 AM.

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