Those games all came out in 1995. I don't know the exact release dates of those games, but Playstation launched in September. You're talking about lagging behind for, what, a couple months?Originally Posted by 16bitter
Wasn't the point. It looked and seemed to play amazing those first few months. It was an awesome tech demo. Five months later? Yeah, people start noticing it plays like shit. But that's not the issue. [/quote]Originally Posted by j_factor
Then what is? I mean, a shitty game that looks nice doesn't really do us any good.
I don't know who the hell you're hanging out with, but I assume there was some reason why the Saturn was getting its ass kicked from the very start.[/quote]Originally Posted by j_factor
That reason certainly isn't arcade ports.
I agree, Virtua Fighter and Daytona were crappy, rushed ports. But you're acting like "the end of the year" was an eternity when the official US launches of both consoles were in September. And I believe I specifically said in my original reply "in December '95" so I don't know why you're arguing about the couple months before then.As you should know, the American market doesn't give a crap for VF -- the system mover in Japan. And, to top it off, until the end of the year all the Saturn ports directly from Sega looked like day old garbage at best.
Late arrivals? I was talking about 1995. The whole year. I think I made this clear from the beginning. Yes, the Saturn was quite the lame duck from its Japanese launch to its US "limited prerelease" all the way until its "official launch" when games started rolling in. But after that, I was significantly more impressed by Saturn's overall lineup. MayIt's also interesting that you use late arrivals like Sega Rally against the PS's lineup. Second generation versus first generation software, and months too late to the market from Sega's side.
Believe it or not, football is far and away what matters most in the market. It is the market for all intents and purposes.Originally Posted by j_factor
I'm vague, but I'm pretty sure that this was roundly panned. Faceoff on the other hand looked nice and picked up positive reviews.Originally Posted by j_factor
Who cares? This is America -- five people give a crap about soccer here.Originally Posted by j_factor
It's hilarious that you don't think it a big deal to be without the BIG American sport on Saturn, but are critical of the lack of soccer on the PS. How much more biased can you be? [/quote]
You're totally misrepresenting what I said. I never made any claim regarding the market importance of individual sports. I CONCEDED a point to you, and you're mocking me for it -- isn't that a little overly confrontational, even for you?
No, anybody who'd see Bug! as a graphical tour de force -- or its sequel, Bug Too! as a graphically superior work to Crash Bandicoot -- is pretty deep in Sega denial on this system war. [/quote]Originally Posted by j_factor
I never referred to Bug! as a graphical tour de force. I said it was "pretty wow at the time" and the wow part was that it was a new type of game. A new way of presenting a game and a new way of playing a game.
What do you think a next gen system mainly is supposed to do? Look damn nice.[/quote]Originally Posted by j_factor
I highly disagree. I think a next-gen system is supposed to provide new experiences. That's why I didn't care about Dreamcast at first, and that's why I don't like Xbox 360 so far. ....Saturn did it for me. Playstation did too, but for the first two years overall it didn't have as many worthwhile games.
A more balanced question would be who plays Daytona or Virtua Fighter as opposed to the PS games you mentioned (two of the lamest, in retrospect). And, hey, who was even playing them then? [/quote]Originally Posted by j_factor
Why are you so fixated on Daytona and VF1? I've stated time and again that I basically agree with you about those two games; you're just beating a dead horse. Saturn had other games in 1995. You're acting like the games I mentioned don't exist.
Well I had a hell of a great time with Saturn back then. A friend of mine got a Playstation, and while I adored WipEout and a couple others, it didn't have the quantity of quality games that I wanted. Neither did Saturn in its VERY beginning, but it did soon after, while Playstation didn't at that time.I play many more Snes and Genny games today than I do anything from Saturn or PS's first year. That doesn't change the fact that I had a hell of a great time with the Playstation back then.
Maybe it has something to do with showing up late for the party?Originally Posted by j_factor
If you didn't see any quality in games like Jumping Flash!, Warhawk, Twisted Metal, WipEout, Ridge Racer and the like there isn't much I can do to change your mind at this late date. Did games generally get better? Yes, but that's always the case with great systems. [/quote]
Man, how many times do I have to say WipEout and Jumping Flash were great games before you stop acting as though I think the opposite?
We weren't talking about the launch. This whole argument started when I said "I was there too, and I bought a Saturn in December of '95 precisely because it was wowing me far more than Playstation." December of '95. The post I was responding to didn't say "at launch" either. The discussion was of the early part of the consoles' lifespans, not strictly the launch.And we were talking about the launch, which means your retrospective about what's decent now and what isn't misses the entire point.
Well, you were one of the few to think this for the year. And for having so many impressive games, it's interesting that you have basically mentioned maybe five titles altogether -- what else did the Saturn have?[/quote]Originally Posted by j_factor
Well, I did say good games, not impressive games. Impressive is hard to quantify.
So far I've mentioned:
Virtua Fighter 2
World Series Baseball
NHL All-Star Hockey
I might also add:
Virtual Open Tennis