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Thread: would streetfighter alpha be possible on the megadrive ?

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    Ninetailed Noob Raging in the Streets KitsuneNight's Avatar
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    Default would streetfighter alpha be possible on the megadrive ?

    the snes is ( barley ) able to handle street fighter alpha 2 ( with a lot of help the sdd1 chip )
    and we have seen thata stock megadrive is able to push out a proof of concept starfox
    would a stock megadrive be able to handle street fighter alpha 1 ( and possibley 2 )
    and if one had the time inclination and know how would a decent port of alpha 1 be possible ?

    or could the megadrive even handle alpha 2 ?

    with cut downs off course

    or would these games be better suited to the 32x's bigger color palette and more horse power ?

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    Hero of Algol TrekkiesUnite118's Avatar
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    It could probably handle it, but it would take a substantial hit as far as colors are concerned. The sprites would probably be fine, but the backgrounds would definitely suffer. Though you could probably have the Genesis do the Sprites and the 32X do the backgrounds and get a pretty decent looking port. A 32X port would definitely be doable, a Genesis port would be doable but with serious graphical compromises would be my best guess.

    Sound wise though the music was already converted to FM Synth for the CPS-1/CPS Changer version, so using that as a base you could probably get the music ported over decently:



    Though without the source code this is all just what if talk. Unless of course you want to make your own fighting engine and study the game for years to learn how it works.

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    The Cat in the Hat Shining Hero NeoVamp's Avatar
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    I think SFA is perfectly possible on the Genesis, but some stages would be easier to convert then others.

    What I would do is take Super SF2 and replace all the character sprites with reduced alpha sprites,
    then replace the music, and then replace backgrounds with similar ones from the Alpha series.

    Colorwise its all possible, but like I said before.. some stages would probably come out better then others.

    as far as sprites are concerned.. the more sprites the bigger the game, but if you stick to the same amount of sprites
    that Super SF2 uses then at least you'd get a pretty big game that also looks good.

    hmm.. if only a skilled coder would reverse engineer Super SF2 and rebuild it into a usable source.

    But you gotta be pretty dedicated to undertake such a task.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KitsuneNight View Post
    the snes is ( barley ) able to handle street fighter alpha 2 ( with a lot of help the sdd1 chip )
    and we have seen thata stock megadrive is able to push out a proof of concept starfox
    would a stock megadrive be able to handle street fighter alpha 1 ( and possibley 2 )
    and if one had the time inclination and know how would a decent port of alpha 1 be possible ?

    or could the megadrive even handle alpha 2 ?

    with cut downs off course

    or would these games be better suited to the 32x's bigger color palette and more horse power ?
    Oh heck, you could fit into a snes cart a chip that's 100x more powerful than a snes itself. Any time a snes uses a chip inside the cart I consider that as "the snes can't handle it". The genesis starfox clone I've seen doesn't have nearly as many objects on the screen at one time as the snes version, it's not exactly a proper test. I don't get what you're asking by saying, "can it handle it with cut downs?". With enough cut downs a nes could "handle it".

    Regarding audio...if the cps1 were so genesis compatible street fighter 2 champion edition and mercs would sound a heck of a lot better. The genesis audio hardware is too different from the cps1.
    Last edited by Drakon; 04-30-2013 at 04:53 PM.

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    Outrunner Metalwario64's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TrekkiesUnite118 View Post
    Though without the source code this is all just what if talk. Unless of course you want to make your own fighting engine and study the game for years to learn how it works.
    Well, games like Sonic and Super Mario World have had their sources disassembled, and then some coders have read through it discovered what did what, then commented them so they'd be usable by other people.

    I'm no programmer, so I don't know why this couldn't be potentially done with SFA2 on the SNES. If someone was capable enough, I could see that happening, then you'd have source code.

    Someone correct me if I'm mistaken.

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    Raging in the Streets
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    It's possible, it just probably wouldn't be very good.

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    Hero of Algol TrekkiesUnite118's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drakon View Post
    Regarding audio...if the cps1 were so genesis compatible street fighter 2 champion edition and mercs would sound a heck of a lot better. The genesis audio hardware is too different from the cps1.
    The hardware really isn't that different. The CPS1 has a YM2151 which as 8 4-OP FM channels + 1 Dedicated PCM Chip. The Genesis has a YM2612 which has 5/6 4-OP FM Channels and 1 DAC channel + 3 Square Waves and 1 White Noise generator. Worst case scenario is you lose 2-3 FM channels and take a hit in Percussion.

    The beta versions of Street Fighter 2 sound pretty close to the CPS1 renditions:









    And then there's Turtles in Time which uses almost the exact same sound hardware as the CPS-1 which sounds almost identical on the Genesis save a few PCM instruments missing:





    Quote Originally Posted by Metalwario64 View Post
    Well, games like Sonic and Super Mario World have had their sources disassembled, and then some coders have read through it discovered what did what, then commented them so they'd be usable by other people.

    I'm no programmer, so I don't know why this couldn't be potentially done with SFA2 on the SNES. If someone was capable enough, I could see that happening, then you'd have source code.

    Someone correct me if I'm mistaken.
    If you were going to do that you'd be better off disassembling the arcade versions. Not only would you not be limited to the limits of the SNES port, but you'd be disassembling code for the same CPU as the Genesis, possibly making the porting easier.
    Last edited by TrekkiesUnite118; 04-30-2013 at 05:33 PM.

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    Master of Shinobi Bottino's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NeoVamp View Post
    I think SFA is perfectly possible on the Genesis, but some stages would be easier to convert then others.

    What I would do is take Super SF2 and replace all the character sprites with reduced alpha sprites,
    then replace the music, and then replace backgrounds with similar ones from the Alpha series.

    Colorwise its all possible, but like I said before.. some stages would probably come out better then others.

    as far as sprites are concerned.. the more sprites the bigger the game, but if you stick to the same amount of sprites
    that Super SF2 uses then at least you'd get a pretty big game that also looks good.

    hmm.. if only a skilled coder would reverse engineer Super SF2 and rebuild it into a usable source.

    But you gotta be pretty dedicated to undertake such a task.
    It sounds like a great idea.Also, port it to the 32X and give him some love.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drakon View Post
    Oh heck, you could fit into a snes cart a chip that's 100x more powerful than a snes itself. Any time a snes uses a chip inside the cart I consider that as "the snes can't handle it". The genesis starfox clone I've seen doesn't have nearly as many objects on the screen at one time as the snes version, it's not exactly a proper test. I don't get what you're asking by saying, "can it handle it with cut downs?". With enough cut downs a nes could "handle it".
    To make a comment like that, you have to understand the purpose of the chip.

    In the case of the S-DD1, it's a decompression engine allowing considerable cost reduction of the cart. Without it, the game would have required much more ROM and been considerably more expensive . . . or require much more of the animation and detail to be cut.

    The MD itself can do some streaming decompression too (in software), though it's still practically limited and more so for CPU intensive games (fighters aren't generally aren't bad for that though). It's probably not going to compete with what the S-DD1 could handle overall, but it probably would have been decent at least. (especially with a bit more ROM to work with)

    That-said, I rather doubt anything like that would have been handled particularly well if done with typical in-house Capcom development practices, given the relatively average (at best) optimization MD games saw (or, arguably, console games in general). Both SFII SCE and Super SFII on the MD are good examples there . . . crappy sample playback sound engines, mediocre use of samples on top of that (same low quality in Super and no sampled drums/percussion at all), and only a modest gain in animation and detail over the SNES counterparts in spite of the potential for software compression and use of larger ROM sizes. And given the particularly large/costly ROMs and relatively high profile nature of those games being released, it's even more strange. (not the same argument over a relatively low-budget release)

    Now, if Sega handled it, or it was outsourced to a more capable developer, that certainly could have been another story. (probably should have done that for all the SF games . . . )

    Regarding audio...if the cps1 were so genesis compatible street fighter 2 champion edition and mercs would sound a heck of a lot better. The genesis audio hardware is too different from the cps1.
    That's totally up to programming . . . and that includes the synth hardware and not just the CPU (Z80) driven sample playback. The YM2612 is very similar to the arcade standard YM2151, just with fewer channels. (then you've got the PSG useful for some things and samples on top of that)

    Capcom's sound driver is definitely sub-par . . . and a lot of their console programming in general isn't particularly well done either. (this came up before, and it's also interesting to note that one of the better sound-optimized SFII ports -the PC Engine version- wasn't programmed by Capcom at all)


    Anyway, hardware speaking, the MD is perfectly capable of doing reasonable conversions of any YM2151 (and similar) based arcade hardware . . . not to mention decent arrangements for much different sound hardware too, and not uncommonly BETTER sounding than more technically powerful hardware using larger ROMs. (compare vapor trail arcade to the MD version)
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    Quote Originally Posted by evilevoix View Post
    Dude it’s the bios that marries the 16 bit and the 8 bit that makes it 24 bit. If SNK released their double speed bios revision SNK would have had the world’s first 48 bit machine, IDK how you keep ignoring this.
    Quote Originally Posted by evilevoix View Post
    the PCE, that system has no extra silicone for music, how many resources are used to make music and it has less sprites than the MD on screen at once but a larger sprite area?

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    Quote Originally Posted by TrekkiesUnite118 View Post
    If you were going to do that you'd be better off disassembling the arcade versions. Not only would you not be limited to the limits of the SNES port, but you'd be disassembling code for the same CPU as the Genesis, possibly making the porting easier.
    I knew I must be wrong, so thanks for correcting me! Forgot they both had the same type of processor.

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    I remain nonsequitur Shining Hero sheath's Avatar
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    I think I agree with the general trend of the thread. The game could have been done but not 1:1 obviously. It would need to have sprite and animation changes for the lower resolution and ROM for one thing. No way was anybody going to make a Megadrive/Genesis game at 15Megabytes for one thing. Then there's the niggling problem of the four 15-color palettes on screen at one time.

    Would the game be possible? Are the Street Fighter games or, technically more impressive, home exclusives like Eternal Challenge and WeaponLord possible? Of course the game could be done, but the graphics and sound would be different. How different would be a factor of how much resources, and the quality of those resources, was put into it. I imagine most frames in a 5Mbit cartridge with heavy compression and massive changes to the backgrounds including dithering and posterized art changes. Otherwise the game could play perfectly and look like a 16-bit title.
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    Hero of Algol TrekkiesUnite118's Avatar
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    The resolution wouldn't really need to be affected that much. If you have the ROM space you could get by with just having the sides cut off a bit similar to the Saturn CPS2 ports. Though you would need to scale down the Health Bars and Super Bars to make them fit.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TrekkiesUnite118 View Post
    The resolution wouldn't really need to be affected that much. If you have the ROM space you could get by with just having the sides cut off a bit similar to the Saturn CPS2 ports. Though you would need to scale down the Health Bars and Super Bars to make them fit.
    That worked on the Saturn because it was only 32 pixels thinner. Megadrive would be 64pixels thinner, which might be more notable.
    Regardless, you'd need to redo all the graphics for it to fit in the cart anyway, so you might as well resize them while you are at it.

    SF Alpha is possible but you'd have to cut a lot of things. Hell, Marvel vs Capcom 1 would be possible but you'd have to cut a lot of things.

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    Hero of Algol TrekkiesUnite118's Avatar
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    It wouldn't be that bad really. You'd just be going from this:



    To this:



    While a lot of the HUD is gone, that can be fixed and resized. The rest isn't too bad.

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    The graphics would need to be squashed horizontally though. The arcade game is widescreen made to be squashed to 4x3, so the sprites would look too wide if left as is. The SNES sprites would be usable if one didn't want to manually edit each frame to look good in the thinner ratio. Maybe the SNES sprites could be a base, and if one wanted to have more animation frames, just those could be converted.

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