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Thread: wolfenstein 3d demo for sega genesis

  1. #31
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    This is pretty awesome. Considering how good it is on the Genesis has me wondering how fast raycasting could run on the PCE.

  2. #32
    The Cat in the Hat Shining Hero NeoVamp's Avatar
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    Can't wait to see the enemies, I really hope the game wont slow down.

  3. #33
    Smith's Minister of War Hero of Algol Kamahl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bakemono View Post
    This is pretty awesome. Considering how good it is on the Genesis has me wondering how fast raycasting could run on the PCE.
    Planar graphics would hurt performance a lot...
    This thread needs more... ENGINEERS

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kamahl View Post
    Planar graphics would hurt performance a lot...
    http://www.sega-16.com/forum/showthr...and-Raycasting

    Catacomb 3D has to deal with that . . . and was made to be playable on a slow 286. And managed to be significantly LESS CPU hungy than Wolf3D. (I tried them on a 286-20 board and found Catacomb very fast and smooth, but wolf3D a bit chunky -still totally playable, and probably faster than the WIP Wolf32x release. but Catacomb 3D was considerably faster)
    Taking into account it's doing full res too (not double wide pixels) that's a good chunk of rays/columns to calculate. More so with the wider screen of catabomb Abyss and Armageddon.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jsqIW_xvdrk
    6 days older than SEGA Genesis
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    Quote Originally Posted by evilevoix View Post
    Dude it’s the bios that marries the 16 bit and the 8 bit that makes it 24 bit. If SNK released their double speed bios revision SNK would have had the world’s first 48 bit machine, IDK how you keep ignoring this.
    Quote Originally Posted by evilevoix View Post
    the PCE, that system has no extra silicone for music, how many resources are used to make music and it has less sprites than the MD on screen at once but a larger sprite area?

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by kool kitty89 View Post
    http://www.sega-16.com/forum/showthr...and-Raycasting

    Catacomb 3D has to deal with that . . . and was made to be playable on a slow 286. And managed to be significantly LESS CPU hungy than Wolf3D. (I tried them on a 286-20 board and found Catacomb very fast and smooth, but wolf3D a bit chunky -still totally playable, and probably faster than the WIP Wolf32x release. but Catacomb 3D was considerably faster)
    Taking into account it's doing full res too (not double wide pixels) that's a good chunk of rays/columns to calculate. More so with the wider screen of catabomb Abyss and Armageddon.
    A big rom with lots of space dedicated to 'code lists' could help out, too. That.. Blood-something-or-other 3D Genesis game does that. If you could get the chunky to planar conversion done in 1 frame, it might not be too bad. I'm sure there's some ways to exploit some code lists for that. I believe that's Chilly Willy's domain

    Hey KoolKitty, if you figure out more details on the Catacomb and 3D planar rendering in general, create a new thread. I can roll out some numbers to see how the PCE would perform on this (don't want to derail this thread, with that stuffs).
    Last edited by tomaitheous; 09-06-2013 at 10:03 PM.

  6. #36
    Smith's Minister of War Hero of Algol Kamahl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kool kitty89 View Post
    Catacomb 3D has to deal with that . . . and was made to be playable on a slow 286.
    No tiles to deal with for that one .
    This thread needs more... ENGINEERS

  7. #37
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    But it has bitplanes to deal with :P
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  8. #38
    Super Robot Raging in the Streets Obviously's Avatar
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    The technical stuff all flies over my simple-minded head so I can't think of anything else to say but, "very cool." I love Wolf 3D. It's one of those games I own probably half a dozen versions of.

  9. #39
    The Cat in the Hat Shining Hero NeoVamp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Obviously View Post
    The technical stuff all flies over my simple-minded head

    I'm no programming genius either, so let us have a simple minded discussion about this port then!

    I like how fast the 3D is in this port, much faster then Zero Tolerance!
    Last edited by NeoVamp; 09-07-2013 at 02:22 PM.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by tomaitheous View Post
    A big rom with lots of space dedicated to 'code lists' could help out, too. That.. Blood-something-or-other 3D Genesis game does that. If you could get the chunky to planar conversion done in 1 frame, it might not be too bad. I'm sure there's some ways to exploit some code lists for that. I believe that's Chilly Willy's domain

    Hey KoolKitty, if you figure out more details on the Catacomb and 3D planar rendering in general, create a new thread. I can roll out some numbers to see how the PCE would perform on this (don't want to derail this thread, with that stuffs).
    That was all just supposition made on my part on how Catacomb 3D might work . . . all I do know is that it DOES work, takes significantly less CPU resource to run smoothly than Wolf 3D, and has to work within 512/640 kB of RAM . . . and will run on an 8088/8086. (not sure of the actual speed though)

    Quote Originally Posted by Kamahl View Post
    No tiles to deal with for that one .
    Quote Originally Posted by TmEE View Post
    But it has bitplanes to deal with :P
    Yes . . . and x86/PC architecture quirks too. (including overhead to copy from main to EGA memory)

    As in that thread, my bigger point was on how that could/should have been possible to do on the ST and Amiga as well, not so much the PCE. (more direct RAM and planar framebuffer configuration, though better/cleaner CPU architecture -and much faster than 8088/86- and better color options)
    6 days older than SEGA Genesis
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    Quote Originally Posted by evilevoix View Post
    Dude it’s the bios that marries the 16 bit and the 8 bit that makes it 24 bit. If SNK released their double speed bios revision SNK would have had the world’s first 48 bit machine, IDK how you keep ignoring this.
    Quote Originally Posted by evilevoix View Post
    the PCE, that system has no extra silicone for music, how many resources are used to make music and it has less sprites than the MD on screen at once but a larger sprite area?

  11. #41
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    Awesome mind-blowing effort here. I'm just following the thread, reading the posts since the first day since it's all pure gold...

    But I was having this idiot thought last night and I'd like to know the answers (if possible, please): What if the main part of the game run on the Sega CD's M68K but the enemies AI and the bullets' collision detection (and/or maybe some on the fly decompression job as well) run on the Genesis's M68K? Would it be possible/feasible, to begin with? Could it give a noticeable performance boost compared to running everything on the Sega CD's CPU or the major bottlenecks are not CPU related?
    Last edited by Barone; 09-08-2013 at 11:21 AM.

  12. #42
    The Cat in the Hat Shining Hero NeoVamp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barone View Post
    Awesome mind-blowing effort here. I'm just following the thread, reading the posts since the first day since it's all pure gold...

    But I was having this idiot thought last night and I'd like to know the answers (if possible, please): What if the main part of the game run on the Sega CD's M68K but the enemies AI and the bullets' collision detection (and/or maybe some on the fly decompression job as well) run on the Genesis's M68K? Would it be possible/feasible, to begin with? Could it give a noticeable performance boost compared to running everything on the Sega CD's CPU or the major bottlenecks are not CPU related?
    While that would probably solve some issues it would ruin the whole feel of having a Wolf3D on a stock genesis,
    the Snes got its own port without special chips, and it looks horrible, but the Genesis seems to be doing great so far.

    I really hope that he decides to keep this a Genesis only port, without the aid of external chips/addons.

  13. #43
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    Those are just some tech questions, I hope they don't make you feel sad or something... And he had already shared a link testing the Sega CD.
    Also, I don't give a shit about this SNES vs Genesis war, especially 20 years after... Whatever this guy wants to do I'll gladly receive as a great gift, be it a raw Genesis version or something using the Sega CD to assist.

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barone View Post
    I hope they don't make you feel sad or something...
    Well..

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by NeoVamp View Post
    While that would probably solve some issues it would ruin the whole feel of having a Wolf3D on a stock genesis,
    the Snes got its own port without special chips, and it looks horrible, but the Genesis seems to be doing great so far.

    I really hope that he decides to keep this a Genesis only port, without the aid of external chips/addons.
    Meh, the SNES version doesn't look horrible . . . blocky yeah, but not too bad and a really interesting way do do it (rendering to a low res mode 7 window). Surprisingly fast/smooth too, and didn't resort to 1-sided enemies like Doom did. (or the "upgraded" Mac-derived Wolf3D versions like the Jag and 3DO )

    The censorship sucks though, and the stripped down SFX, and hacked up soundtrack.


    Still, with what was managed given the SNES's CPU limitations, I wonder how Carmak might have pulled it off on the Genesis . . . maybe somewhat like this project?



    In any case, it would definitely be interesting to see how a Sega CD adapation of this could go . . . especially since the current ROM is well under the Sega CD RAM limitations.
    Albeit, short of using the ASIC, the fastest Sega CD rendering configuration for this sort of game would probably be rendering a linear 8bpp window in word RAM and then have the MD CPU handle the tile conversion.


    Chilly Willy was already planning on working on a Sega CD Wolf 3D conversion, so at the very least this project could end up contributing to that. (directly or indirectly)
    Last edited by kool kitty89; 09-09-2013 at 05:32 AM.
    6 days older than SEGA Genesis
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    Quote Originally Posted by evilevoix View Post
    Dude it’s the bios that marries the 16 bit and the 8 bit that makes it 24 bit. If SNK released their double speed bios revision SNK would have had the world’s first 48 bit machine, IDK how you keep ignoring this.
    Quote Originally Posted by evilevoix View Post
    the PCE, that system has no extra silicone for music, how many resources are used to make music and it has less sprites than the MD on screen at once but a larger sprite area?

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