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Thread: PS2 vs Dreamcast Graphics

  1. #1651
    Raging in the Streets Team Andromeda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cleeg View Post
    That's quite fair Team Andromeda, I only really played a DC more recently, and the PS2 isn't night and day different in superficial terms so I can see why it wasn't as impressive to you. I went from Saturn which I owned and friends' PSes to the PS2 so the jump for me was way more prominent, any PS2 jaggies are more jaggy than the DC but less jaggy than their respective predecessors!

    I still think the PS2 still deserves its place in gaming history as a superb gaming platform, though I understand your argument a little more now.

    Look thats fair, everyone has different expectations and experiences of consoles. I wasn't impressed at all with the PS2, it was very easy to be impressed with the PS from Day 1 even on its Japanese launch mind. Like I said I had already imported my DC and by the time of the PS2 launch the DC already had the likes of VF3tB, House of the Dead II, Soul Caliber, Shenmue, D2, Virtual Striker 2, Maken X, NFl 2K, NBA 2k, Code: Veronica
    and all those games were displaying amazing GFX (for the time) The PS2 didn't blow any of them away and in many cases looked worse. It really wasn't untill I saw and played ESPN Track and Field that I started to see the polygon power of the PS2 and even then it was full of jaggies.
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  2. #1652
    Raging in the Streets bultje112's Avatar
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    to anyone who played, owned or had seen a dreamcast, the ps2 was nothing but a disappointment upon release. the graphics were very disappointing as was the quality of the games. I remember reading magazines and they were all like: is this it? this is the monstrously powerful ps2?

  3. #1653
    Mega Driven Raging in the Streets cleeg's Avatar
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    TA, I'd just like to reiterate that I wasn't calling you stupid, I just thought some of the things you were saying sounded stupid at the time. No offence was meant .

  4. #1654
    Hero of Algol
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    Ridge Racer V had 3D models better than any racer on the Dreamcast at the time, at 60 fps and far superior lighting effects.
    Yes, it was a jaggies fest but to say it had nothing impressive on launch isn't true.

    Tekken Tag Tournament's 3D characters models were also clearly better than the Virtua Fighter 3 TB (a poor port IMHO) ones.

    Yes, the line-up itself was pretty lackluster compared to the DC's which was awesome. But that's about it.

  5. #1655
    Raging in the Streets Team Andromeda's Avatar
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    Ridge racer V Looked like crap and I'll hardly say Tekken Tag looked better than SC on the DC, it hardly looked better than VF 3tb and also it was hardly a poor port, that's just internet crap that's been spun for yeats.
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  6. #1656
    Framemeister Expert Hedgehog-in-TrainingOutrunner Tower of Power's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cleeg View Post
    Also, the whole DVD thing was perfectly timed and made the machine feel very innovative in its day because of this. It was an excellent console and not in anyway overhyped
    Oh, PS2 was definitely overhyped. From Sony, to the press, to gamers, everyone was talking about the PS2 like it was going to be the second coming. Of course, there was the typical hyperbole from Sony (55-70million polygons per second) the people bought into, but they also said that the PS2 would be multiple times more powerful than any other piece of gaming hardware on the market (can't find a source for this right this second).

    Just speaking colloquially, people thought that the PS2 would be many times more powerful than the Dreamcast. And while it's arguable that the PS2 was eventually pushed this hard, at launch, it defintely didn't look orders of magnitude better than Dreamcast.

    Also, there was the claim from Sony that the PS2 would have "movie quality 3D graphics" which the press took to mean that the PS2 would have Toy Story level graphics: https://www.neogaf.com/threads/a-bla...-source.89876/

    Then there was stuff like the PS2 supposedly being used to launch missiles by Iraq: https://www.theregister.co.uk/2000/1...laystation_2s/

    Or being registered as a super computer in Japan: https://www.theregister.co.uk/2000/0...ion_2_exports/

    These kinds of stories definitely fed into the hype

    Also, a lot of people at the time felt that the early software didn't live up to the tech demos Sony showed off (although, of course, these were largely met or surpassed over time):





  7. #1657
    I DON'T LIKE POKEMON Hero of Algol j_factor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barone View Post
    Ridge Racer V had 3D models better than any racer on the Dreamcast at the time, at 60 fps and far superior lighting effects.
    That may be true but the total package graphically did not meet the bar set by the better-looking Dreamcast racers IMHO.


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  8. #1658
    Raging in the Streets Yharnamresident's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Team Andromeda View Post
    Code Veronica was also way better on the DC as was Space Channel 5 Part II. PS2 was such a crap machine given all the hype and such a step backward not just for display, but also for Online. Such a shame the DC didn't take off, but still it allowed the XBox to come in, which was sich better a system that the PS2 and lived up to the hype of amazing Gfx, sound and also for Online
    But the OG Xbox is hideous, so hideous that I refuse to have one in my game setup. The 360 is much more cosmetically pleasing

    Quote Originally Posted by Team Andromeda View Post
    That its USA lauch which came months after the Japanese one, so its not really fair to compare it to the Day 1 XBox Launch, which launched 1st in the USA. On the Japanese launch of the PS2 it was poor. I mean the DC wasn't great in terms of numbers, but Pen Pen and more so VF3Tb were leaps and bounds above what was possible on the Saturn, PS or N64. The PS2 had RRV and Street Fighter and they hardly looked better than DC games, in fact they looked a step back with their horrible jaggies
    That makes me think of something,

    how come the Dreamcast got Soul Calibre instead of a Ridge Racer? Or was that before Namco started creating a Ridge Racer for every system launch?

    Quote Originally Posted by bultje112 View Post
    here, it has been done for you already:

    39:30 Ok these guys experienced no differences. Perhaps its an illusion after all

    Quote Originally Posted by cleeg View Post
    I still think the PS2 still deserves its place in gaming history as a superb gaming platform, though I understand your argument a little more now.
    If someone said the PS2 was the best console ever, I wouldn't object much to that.

    I hate when people say the Dreamcast, Xbox, GameCube were unfairly beaten by the PS2. Those consoles each have much bigger flaws than the flaws the PS2 has

    Quote Originally Posted by Barone View Post
    Ridge Racer V had 3D models better than any racer on the Dreamcast at the time, at 60 fps and far superior lighting effects.
    Yes, it was a jaggies fest but to say it had nothing impressive on launch isn't true.
    I was playing Ridge Racer V recently, and I noticed the lighting is exceptionally good. The car models are also pretty high poly count. But those are the only things the game has going for it.

    The textures are low-res, it has shoebox buildings, theres not much in terms of post-processing effects(besides I think depth of field and tire smoke), the internal resolution is very low. And of course, jaggies.

    Nonetheless, the game is still amazing. Also not only does the game have surround sound, but the music is mixed in surround sound also.


    So I talked to a Demul developer about including a poly counter, he said there isn't enough demand to warrant creating one. Was worth a shot though: http://www.emutalk.net/threads/56883...a-poly-counter
    Certified F-Zero GX fanboy

  9. #1659
    Raging in the Streets Team Andromeda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yharnamresident View Post
    But the OG Xbox is hideous, so hideous that I refuse to have one in my game setup. The 360 is much more cosmetically pleasing
    And so miss out on some of the best games ever made and also some of the best ever SEGA games too. It doesn't get much better than Orta, JSRF, Sega GT 2002, GV Outrun 2, Outrun 2006 if you are a SEGA fan and to me the Crystal XBox is a lovely looking console, not that I care what a consoel looks like
    Panzer Dragoon Zwei is
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  10. #1660
    Smith's Minister of War Hero of Algol Kamahl's Avatar
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    Playing PS2 games on PCSX2 in HD really helps to see just how many particles and effects are being tossed around.
    If only the PS2 had the lovely graphical output of the DC... God of War 2 only runs at 512x448 on real hardware.





    Out of the 3 games in these videos, I think Zone of Enders would be the worst possible one to try and port to the Dreamcast, just look at all those particles! Even the Xbox would die with that!
    This thread needs more... ENGINEERS

  11. #1661
    Hero of Algol
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    ^
    It's sad that games such as Black, Transformers and Burnout 3 aren't properly emulated yet.

    Let me just link this real hardware capture here though:

  12. #1662
    Smith's Minister of War Hero of Algol Kamahl's Avatar
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    Burnout 3 is also a pretty good example of the particle / transparency fillrate of the ps2. The sparks on the xbox are a lot simpler and less "glowy", even though the game overall looks better there.
    This thread needs more... ENGINEERS

  13. #1663
    Raging in the Streets Yharnamresident's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Team Andromeda View Post
    And so miss out on some of the best games ever made and also some of the best ever SEGA games too. It doesn't get much better than Orta, JSRF, Sega GT 2002, GV Outrun 2, Outrun 2006 if you are a SEGA fan and to me the Crystal XBox is a lovely looking console, not that I care what a consoel looks like
    I own 2 of those games and I play them on 360.

    I usually don't care what a console looks like, I've owned a NTSC SNES, but the OG Xbox is past what I can withstand.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kamahl View Post
    Playing PS2 games on PCSX2 in HD really helps to see just how many particles and effects are being tossed around.
    If only the PS2 had the lovely graphical output of the DC... God of War 2 only runs at 512x448 on real hardware.

    Out of the 3 games in these videos, I think Zone of Enders would be the worst possible one to try and port to the Dreamcast, just look at all those particles! Even the Xbox would die with that!
    God of War 2 also has a full frame buffer mode at 640x448, but the game lags more. The programmer for GoW2 said that the PS2 VRAM was so used up, that there was no way to include a PAL 640x512 mode, which is only like a couple more lines of resolution. The game has to be using like 95% of the PS2 hardware capabilities, common a first-party AAA game that was released 7 years after the PS2 was released.



    [slightly off-topic]

    Also if you like particle effects, theres an upcoming game for a future PlayStation console thats loaded with them:



    Pretty crazy watching that after that God of War 2 video. How about a console that does 900 million polygons per second?
    Certified F-Zero GX fanboy

  14. #1664
    Hero of Algol
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kamahl View Post
    Burnout 3 is also a pretty good example of the particle / transparency fillrate of the ps2. The sparks on the xbox are a lot simpler and less "glowy", even though the game overall looks better there.





  15. #1665
    Raging in the Streets Team Andromeda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yharnamresident View Post
    I own 2 of those games and I play them on 360.
    Still missing out on so much SEGA greatness and the XBox made the PS2 look preety lame imo







    Panzer Dragoon Zwei is
    one of the best 3D shooting games available
    Presented for your pleasure

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