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Thread: PS2 vs Dreamcast Graphics

  1. #1546
    Raging in the Streets Team Andromeda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gogogadget View Post
    The N64 barely has much of anything other than a shitty controller.
    I think its a fab controller myself and I can think of quite a few games that thanks to having 6 face buttons make the game much easier to control and play- Stuff like Wing Commander on the Mega CD, Virtual On onthe Saturn, Streets of Rage III Ect . 4 face buttons crippled the DC contoller thanks to only having one stick, if a controller features 2 twin sticks then the need for 6 face buttons becames less.
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    I miss the days of 6 face buttons. Because believe it or not, some of today's games really could use those 2 extra face buttons.

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    Raging in the Streets Sik's Avatar
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    We nearly had them on the PS1 (which would have influenced everything afterward):



    It returned back to a 4 button layout at last minute for... who knows what reason (weird controller shape wasn't it, there were other shapes too). Since they couldn't go back and redo existing they turned - and + into L2 and R2 instead of getting rid of them. This is why modern controllers now have four buttons at the top instead of two.

    I'm more annoyed at the rhombus layout in itself though. More specifically the part about buttons being lined up in 45. Trying to keep your thumb between X and A (xbox/dreamcast layout) makes it awful to press A when you do it often since you aren't pressing it with the tip of the finger, keeping it between A and B is better but has other issues. And there's also the issue of the meanings of A and B in menus being completely different depending on the region because Japan and the West disagreed (thank Nintendo for screwing this up early on with the SNES). I'd prefer something at 0 or maybe 22.5 CCW (the latter may be the best one actually).

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    That PS1 controller looks so much better then what we got.

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    I only have limited experience with the N64 controller but I remember quite liking it. The PS controller works well with 4 buttons what with the extra triggers, but mainly after the introduction of dual sticks.

    The DC has a really nice feeling controller, but the D pad needs a bigger circumfrence. Though it looks like it'll be rubbish, it feels as though it should be nice when moved, but it doesn't always translate into gameplay that well.

    Soul Calibur would be perfect for the layout if the D pad worked better. Other games like Ecco really do just need the extra two buttons though.

    I think it's a nice looking controller too and quite comfortable in the hands.

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    I recently aquired an N64 and have basically been having a blast with No Mercy & Revenge and not a whole lot else.

    Although I maintain that the controller sucks for the simple reason of that fucking plastic analog stick, it's made from the devils plastic and is as uncomfortable as all fuck. It's actually a pretty reasonable controller when used as a D-Pad + 6 buttons but is leagues behind the the Saturn controller in that regard. That being said I have few good things to say about the PS1 controller (blister city) and the Dreamcast controller makes me rage uncontrollably every time I use it... and thats a console I actually like.

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    Funnily enough I don't dislike the DC's thumbstick but I can see why it's not to everyone's liking. I've ordered some rubber pads to see how they feel. They have a white circle on them so shouldn't look out of place.

    The best D pad bar none is on the Nomad, Street Fighter II is a pleasure to play on that system.

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    The Nomad?

    I don't think so. The best D-pad is on the Japanese Sega Saturn controller.
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    It's a close run thing, but I personally really do love the Nomad's pad.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gogogadget View Post
    I recently aquired an N64 and have basically been having a blast with No Mercy & Revenge and not a whole lot else.

    Although I maintain that the controller sucks for the simple reason of that fucking plastic analog stick, it's made from the devils plastic and is as uncomfortable as all fuck. It's actually a pretty reasonable controller when used as a D-Pad + 6 buttons but is leagues behind the the Saturn controller in that regard. That being said I have few good things to say about the PS1 controller (blister city) and the Dreamcast controller makes me rage uncontrollably every time I use it... and thats a console I actually like.
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    The D-pad of the Mega Driver controller is more soft, so I like it better than the Saturn one.
    About the 6 button layout, the way Nintendo handled them in the N64 controller (and also the same of that prototype PSX) is still better than those from Sega because you still have the "cross" between 4 of them, since in certain games you need to hold one while pressing other two. The layout from the first Xbox, however, is an abomination, you can't play fighting games right on it because they are displaced into a more vertical way.

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    Quote Originally Posted by maxi View Post
    The D-pad of the Mega Driver controller is more soft, so I like it better than the Saturn one.
    About the 6 button layout, the way Nintendo handled them in the N64 controller (and also the same of that prototype PSX) is still better than those from Sega because you still have the "cross" between 4 of them, since in certain games you need to hold one while pressing other two. The layout from the first Xbox, however, is an abomination, you can't play fighting games right on it because they are displaced into a more vertical way.
    The last vertical row on the Sega 16 buttons is angled just right for holding both buttons. What I do when I emulate certain SNES games with the Genesis 6 button (which is usually making the Y & B buttons of an SNES to Z & C on a Sega 6 button controller). The angle of Y & B is kinda close and do able, but meh, would of been better if all buttons had the Z & C angle.

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    I prefer the sharper image of the DC to the advanced textures of the PS2. IMO there is no PS2 game that looks better than Soulcalibur on DC... Including Soulcalibur 2 on PS2

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    Quote Originally Posted by StuOhQ View Post
    I prefer the sharper image of the DC to the advanced textures of the PS2. IMO there is no PS2 game that looks better than Soulcalibur on DC... Including Soulcalibur 2 on PS2
    In terms of textures, I think most people agree the PS2 was below the Dreamcast in texture capabilities. The PS2 advantages are post-processing effects, shadows/lighting, polygon counts, RAM, and most importantly, disc space.



    So during my time away from this forum, I did a lot of research on PS2 vs Dreamcast. Heres what I took note of:

    - 3 million polygons per second is impressive(for early 6th gen standards aka Dreamcast/PS2)

    - theres only 2 verified Dreamcast games with over 2 million polygons per second(Trigger Heart Ex at 2.6 million, Dead or Alive 2)

    - I think the most impressive game we could see on the Dreamcast, is a Ridge Racer V with better textures, progressive scan, full resolution (640x480), and higher polygon buildings. You may be thinking "but Ridge Racer V runs at 2.1 million polys per second, and the Dreamcast is capable of 3 million". Well its the same thing with, like, the PS3 is capable of 1080p, but the most impressive-looking games aren't going to be in that resolution because it requires too many sacrifices in other graphical departments.


    Now with the PS2:

    -in 2003, Sony themselves said most PS2 games have between 2-5 million polys per second, with the highest at 7.5 million



    -Ratchet and Clank 2002 was shown to be doing 6.2 million polys per second. This is probably the first PS2 game where its blatantly way-beyond Dreamcast levels




    -PS2 fans always loved bringing up how Jak and Daxter did 15 million polys per second. But Jason Rubin, a first-party PS2 developer and the creator of Jak and Daxter, said in a presentation that he thinks the PS2 is capable of 9 million polys per second:


    https://www.gdcvault.com/play/101669...hics-Who-Cares

    I think that settles it. A first-party PS2 developer thinks the PS2 is capable 9 million polys per second. Which is a strong, solid leap over the Dreamcast, but not like a generation ahead, considering it was impressive to hit 100,000 polys per second on the N64/Saturn/PS1.

    Also I'm currently playing God of War 1. This game is the PS2 done right, perfect balance between post-processing effects, poly counts, shadows, textures, widescreen/480p/Dolby PLII.
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    Quote Originally Posted by azonicrider View Post
    In terms of textures, I think most people agree the PS2 was below the Dreamcast in texture capabilities. The PS2 advantages are post-processing effects, shadows/lighting, polygon counts, RAM, and most importantly, disc space.



    So during my time away from this forum, I did a lot of research on PS2 vs Dreamcast. Heres what I took note of:

    - 3 million polygons per second is impressive(for early 6th gen standards aka Dreamcast/PS2)

    - theres only 2 verified Dreamcast games with over 2 million polygons per second(Trigger Heart Ex at 2.6 million, Dead or Alive 2)

    - I think the most impressive game we could see on the Dreamcast, is a Ridge Racer V with better textures, progressive scan, full resolution (640x480), and higher polygon buildings. You may be thinking "but Ridge Racer V runs at 2.1 million polys per second, and the Dreamcast is capable of 3 million". Well its the same thing with, like, the PS3 is capable of 1080p, but the most impressive-looking games aren't going to be in that resolution because it requires too many sacrifices in other graphical departments.


    Now with the PS2:

    -in 2003, Sony themselves said most PS2 games have between 2-5 million polys per second, with the highest at 7.5 million



    -Ratchet and Clank 2002 was shown to be doing 6.2 million polys per second. This is probably the first PS2 game where its blatantly way-beyond Dreamcast levels




    -PS2 fans always loved bringing up how Jak and Daxter did 15 million polys per second. But Jason Rubin, a first-party PS2 developer and the creator of Jak and Daxter, said in a presentation that he thinks the PS2 is capable of 9 million polys per second:


    https://www.gdcvault.com/play/101669...hics-Who-Cares

    I think that settles it. A first-party PS2 developer thinks the PS2 is capable 9 million polys per second. Which is a strong, solid leap over the Dreamcast, but not like a generation ahead, considering it was impressive to hit 100,000 polys per second on the N64/Saturn/PS1.

    Also I'm currently playing God of War 1. This game is the PS2 done right, perfect balance between post-processing effects, poly counts, shadows, textures, widescreen/480p/Dolby PLII.
    That presentation was from 2003, so you are saying that PS2 hit a peak of 9 million polys per second and plateaued? I thought someone (crazyace or someone?) posted some Sony slides showing high peak in game numbers later than that, I also thought Barone posted some quotes from the dev of the F1 game for PS2 with higher numbers than that.

    Welcome back to the forum btw.

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