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Thread: PS2 vs Dreamcast Graphics

  1. #2416
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    Maybe if some one has the original pc release( the none steam one) they can rip a frame from that resident evil 4 to compare? It Should be using ps2 assets and runs dx9.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yharnamresident View Post

    TA I gotta be blunt with you in a light-hearted way. If you wanted us to look at Space Channel 5 Part 2, you should've mentioned its not using garbage CGI backgrounds like the first game haha. Its also an early 2002 Dreamcast game I had no idea about.
    I thought it was common knowledge that the game was all in real-time, incredible really given it looks even better than the 1st game. UGA was amazing
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    Quote Originally Posted by Team Andromeda View Post
    I thought it was common knowledge that the game was all in real-time, incredible really given it looks even better than the 1st game. UGA was amazing
    I agree they definitely stepped up their game with the 2nd one. Though the first one was no slouch , didn't streaming a sfd movie require like 30% of the CPU resources? (Not garbage like he claims, it's hard to even achieve 640x480 video because of that on the DC)Then they had animated like 10 models on that, couldn't have been easy to balance it out.

    Maybe I'll check out part 2 out later for you man. Space channel 5 both are among my favorites. Others is fighting vipers 2, cosmic smash , Sega sports jam, skies of Arcadia.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cloofoofoo View Post
    I agree they definitely stepped up their game with the 2nd one. Though the first one was no slouch , didn't streaming a sfd movie require like 30% of the CPU resources? (Not garbage like he claims, it's hard to even achieve 640x480 video because of that on the DC)Then they had animated like 10 models on that, couldn't have been easy to balance it out.

    Maybe I'll check out part 2 out later for you man. Space channel 5 both are among my favorites. Others is fighting vipers 2, cosmic smash , Sega sports jam, skies of Arcadia.
    It's even more, it was 50% of the SH4 power for an FMV Res of 320X240 CRI even made a codec that used 100% of the SH-4 for a screen Res of 620x240
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    Quote Originally Posted by Team Andromeda View Post
    It's even more, it was 50% of the SH4 power for an FMV Res of 320X240 CRI even made a codec that used 100% of the SH-4 for a screen Res of 620x240
    Ouch that means Homebrew surpassed them. I think some one created a softdec movie player that could play up to 702x480 Rez at 24.97 fps. He mentioned it was quite hard and required alot of optimization to get that kind of performance.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cloofoofoo View Post
    Ouch that means Homebrew surpassed them. I think some one created a softdec movie player that could play up to 702x480 Rez at 24.97 fps. He mentioned it was quite hard and required alot of optimization to get that kind of performance.
    Edge Mag did a couple of features with CRI about Softdec and ADX and Softdec used 50% of the SH4 and I think one needs to remember that this was 1999 , I also read in one Dreamcast Magazine that The Duck Corp made a TrueMotion codec for the DC that run in 702X480 which they made a big thing of being a higher screen res than DVD LOL
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cloofoofoo View Post
    I agree they definitely stepped up their game with the 2nd one. Though the first one was no slouch , didn't streaming a sfd movie require like 30% of the CPU resources? (Not garbage like he claims, it's hard to even achieve 640x480 video because of that on the DC)Then they had animated like 10 models on that, couldn't have been easy to balance it out.
    The reason it looks like garbage is because CGI backgrounds are what you'd expect from a PS1/Saturn game, not from a console that does 10s of 1000s of polygons. Its the same as if there was a Dreamcast football game that used sprites for the characters instead of polygons.

    They did the right thing by switching to polygon backgrounds with the sequel. Also I feel its a high curiosity because its a 2002 Dreamcast game, and not a shoot-em-up on top of that.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yharnamresident View Post
    The reason it looks like garbage is because CGI backgrounds are what you'd expect from a PS1/Saturn game, not from a console that does 10s of 1000s of polygons. Its the same as if there was a Dreamcast football game that used sprites for the characters instead of polygons.

    They did the right thing by switching to polygon backgrounds with the sequel. Also I feel its a high curiosity because its a 2002 Dreamcast game, and not a shoot-em-up on top of that.
    You know the cg backgrounds worked really nice in that game. Imo of course. It's beloved for it's gameplay and was admired for it's color graphics so it must be doing something right.

    I extracted part 2 a long time ago. I'll do a re extract probably tomorrow or the next day. IAM expecting 25k to 50k per frame @ 30fps if I remember right.

    Code Veronica on the ps2 only does 2k to 15k triangles per frame of the ps2, usually runs around 4k Tris per frame. Interesting output. The way the ps2 renders is wildly different.

    I'll also try virtua athlete 2k ps2 version as well.i expect it to run low as well. That means that double checking resident evil 4 original PC release is crucial to check how much it really runs at in conventional hardware using the same assets of the ps2.
    Last edited by Cloofoofoo; 10-31-2019 at 09:16 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cloofoofoo View Post

    Code Veronica on the ps2 only does 2k to 15k triangles per frame of the ps2, usually runs around 4k Tris per frame. Interesting output. The way the ps2 renders is wildly different.
    I can't imagine that RECV put PS2 on it knees, compare with Outbreak 2, RE4 with Ghost hunter I see a considerable graphic difference,
    To be honest, I feel that ps2 is only operating with EE and GS, without making use of Vu1, is the only way that makes sense to me.

    strangely enough, PS2 can mimic the original graphics of a game using significantly fewer polygons per frame, how can this be possible?

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    Quote Originally Posted by SegaAMD View Post
    I can't imagine that RECV put PS2 on it knees, compare with Outbreak 2, RE4 with Ghost hunter I see a considerable graphic difference,
    To be honest, I feel that ps2 is only operating with EE and GS, without making use of Vu1, is the only way that makes sense to me.

    strangely enough, PS2 can mimic the original graphics of a game using significantly fewer polygons per frame, how can this be possible?
    What your saying makes no sense. IAM not a programmer but from what I understand the Vu sends models in small but extremely fast chunks, so if anything this could be heavy use of it. It has to do that due to processor cache I heard. So it could be just sending triangles needed for rendering on the fly, usually detrimental for conventional systems sounds right at home on the ps2.

    Or it could be just using the v.u. for heavy clipping like in trigger heart where it clipped like all the offscreen geometry the Dreamcast rendered.

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    Well thats a minor disappointment, Cloofoofoo for once we will be in agreement this is a locked 30 FPS. I don't see any signs of an unlocked frame rate. Its really bizarre for a game of this genre to be locked at 30 FPS, a rhythm game.


    Of course this game is still very graphically impressive. And it says a lot. If this game was only made for the PS2, no one would consider it a graphically unimpressive PS2 game.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yharnamresident View Post
    Well thats a minor disappointment, Cloofoofoo for once we will be in agreement this is a locked 30 FPS. I don't see any signs of an unlocked frame rate. Its really bizarre for a game of this genre to be locked at 30 FPS, a rhythm game.


    Of course this game is still very graphically impressive. And it says a lot. If this game was only made for the PS2, no one would consider it a graphically unimpressive PS2 game.
    You should trust me more on the frame rate front. Like in pods case I demonstrated you need to mess with it's gamecode/memory values at load time to even allow 60 fps and 60 fps physics.

    I am out right now but later I should have time to post multiple findings from multiple tests I did last night.

    On the space channel 5 part 2 front the game fabulous looks betrays it's polygon count but more in depth later.

    On the resident 4 front the PC version( first release) I suspect is what the Dreamcast version would have looked like. It's devoid of any dynamic light and frame buffer effects meaning no depth of field and no motion blur. I'll be suprised if it has more than one directional light on scene. The PC version also doesn't clip anything including stuff behind the camera. Gives me a good feel of what the ps2 was doing, it was clipping everything out of the screen and behind the camera which is why the polygon count was low. More on that later.

    And finally Virtua athlete 2k... Wow I just don't know what to say. It's basically a remake or in this case a demake. Massive downgrades all around. Was converted to a budget title is seems... Very odd.

    I'll do more in depth stuff with pics later.

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    Space channel 5 part 2 on next. Very pretty looking game with lost of animated characters on screen. The game isnt afraid to use alot of environment maps or use vertex speculars. It isnt pushing alot of polygons despite running at 30 fps , while it doesnt clip stuff outside the screen the game does backface culling on all animated characters/ props probably greatly reducing polygon count. It usually cruises at 15K to 19K tris per frame unless you have a full mob following you AND the camera pans out greatly showing the stage.

    Stage 4 : 28,402 tris per frame x 30 fps = 852K pps



    Final stage: 20,790 tris per frame x 30 fps = 623K pps



    Stage 1 : 30,941 tris per frame x 30 fps = 928K pps


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    ok its Resident evil 4 time. Using the old pc release of resident evil 4 pc we can get an idea what exactly the ps2 is doing. The pc version to start doesnt seem to clip anything in the distance or offscreen or even things directly behind the camera! No back face culling either. Everything is rendered including far away enemies. It might have better textures than ps2 but it doesnt have the depth of field or the radial blur or the dynamic lighting. As a matter of fact it seems to be a shimmering mess with hard to tell depth. The ps2 on the other hand clips some stuff offscreen and does back face culling on the stage itself but not the enemies reducing polygon count tremendously.

    I think theres a case to be made that the dreamcast could handle the pc version even as is. Very basic lighting and even with no clipping and around 5-7 enemies the pc version does like 65K tris per frame @ 30 fps which is like 2 million polygons per second. Kind of like wacky races on the dreamcast.
    To be honest on the dreamcast anything behind the camera would be clipped and the polygons outside the x,y coordinates of the screen would probably not be drawn by the gpu and they would probably do backface culling on the characters( seeing how leon never faces the camera).So all that would reduce how many polygons actually drawn by the thousands if not tens of thousands and reduce wasted fillrate. Maybe even get it inline for 1.5 mpps.

    Pc version : 65,629 tris per frame x 30 fps = 1.9 mpps



    PS2 version : 17,680 tris per frame x 30 fps = 530K pps


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    Quote Originally Posted by Cloofoofoo View Post
    You should trust me more on the frame rate front. Like in pods case I demonstrated you need to mess with it's gamecode/memory values at load time to even allow 60 fps and 60 fps physics.
    I was gonna eventually respond to that, I also got some stuff to say about Code Veronica on PS2. I post in a ton of threads, with topics as far as discussing civil war in America. So I really balance my time between each thread.


    But I really like how Resident Evil 4 on PS2 has that sepia effect I was talking about. Imagine if they got that effect in a Shenmue Dreamcast game.

    So whats the situation with Space Channel 5 Part 2? Was the game a low-effort, and could've been running at 60 FPS? Or do all those character animations and graphical effects take up too much RAM?
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