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Thread: PS2 vs Dreamcast Graphics

  1. #1726
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blades View Post
    I don't know if it's been mentioned but PS2 Ecco, even though it was a rushed port, runs far smoother than the DC original and looks a little better. PS2 F355 had a few graphical additions like shadows improving on the arcade/DC original, but that port has a few problems with textures for no reason really.
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    Raging in the Streets Blades's Avatar
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    That video is using a DC emulator, but you can still see how much better the PS2 port looks. Everything looks richer, and the reflections look much better.

    That video doesnít explore the excessive slowdown the DC version suffers from later in the game.

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    Raging in the Streets Blades's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Team Andromeda View Post
    Sega GT was in development for 3 years and Produced by some of the top of SEGA staff including Panzer Dragoon and NiGHTS producers. I don't think it was a lack of effort, but more to go for as many polygons on screen made right at the start of development. I think the game is great and looks great too, sadly the Pal and USA versions had the handling model totally changed and controls horribly and the fab Carrpzzeria mode cut . Sega GT 2002 was imo the best racer of that Gen, and also the only racer that came close to Polyphony Digital car models in GT3 at 60 fps and it also looked better in other aera in terms of effects and for sound the game was streets ahead of anything with the best 5.1 ever at that time. The game was a true SEGA racer and sould have sold millions
    I loved Sega GT. The USA version had Carrozeria (build your own car) though. I also donít think it was 5.1.

    The handling was quite nice and realistic IMO, if a little unforgiving. At the time, GT hadnít even implemented pitch physics while Sega GT already had it.

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    Raging in the Streets Team Andromeda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blades View Post
    At the time, GT hadnít even implemented pitch physics while Sega GT already had it.
    The US and Pal version hand the handling mode changed, play the Japanese version the handling is much better. The Carrozeria wasn't half as good in the Pal version and I agree with you on the pitch physics it was really noticeable in car view.

    That video is using a DC emulator, but you can still see how much better the PS2 port looks
    That channel is an insult and always using emu's.
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    Raging in the Streets Yharnamresident's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Team Andromeda View Post
    Sega GT was in development for 3 years and Produced by some of the top of SEGA staff including Panzer Dragoon and NiGHTS producers. I don't think it was a lack of effort, but more to go for as many polygons on screen made right at the start of development. I think the game is great and looks great too, sadly the Pal and USA versions had the handling model totally changed and controls horribly and the fab Carrpzzeria mode cut . Sega GT 2002 was imo the best racer of that Gen, and also the only racer that came close to Polyphony Digital car models in GT3 at 60 fps and it also looked better in other aera in terms of effects and for sound the game was streets ahead of anything with the best 5.1 ever at that time. The game was a true SEGA racer and sould have sold millions
    I don't know if I can believe that. First off Sega GT was supposed to be a Gran Turismo killer, and Gran Turismo was only released in very late 1997. This game was probably rushed with like a 1.5 year development cycle, to get it out in time before Gran Turismo 3.

    If this game had a long development cycle and the most talented developers, then it would've looked like it. Like Metropolis Street Racer, Test Drive Le Mans, Ferrari F355 Challenge.

    Quote Originally Posted by SegataS View Post
    The one thing that likely hurt DC a bit is ram. Had it been bumped up to 24MB or 32MB think we would have seen some better stuff.
    I agree. 26 MBs wasn't a big enough leap over previous generations.

    Quote Originally Posted by Blades View Post
    I loved Sega GT. The USA version had Carrozeria (build your own car) though. I also donít think it was 5.1.
    Sega GT might have Dolby Surround, I can test if thats the case in spring or so when I go through the Dreamcast games I own.
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    Master of Shinobi bultje112's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Team Andromeda View Post
    The US and Pal version hand the handling mode changed, play the Japanese version the handling is much better. The Carrozeria wasn't half as good in the Pal version and I agree with you on the pitch physics it was really noticeable in car view.



    That channel is an insult and always using emu's.
    Is the carrozeria mode different in pal compared to us?

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    Raging in the Streets Team Andromeda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yharnamresident View Post
    I don't know if I can believe that. First off Sega GT was supposed to be a Gran Turismo killer, and Gran Turismo was only released in very late 1997. This game was probably rushed with like a 1.5 year development cycle, to get it out in time before Gran Turismo 3.
    I really can't be bothered to get the official SEGA Mag out, but yes it was in development for over 2 and half years and members on its Team included members from Panzer Dragoon and Nights . I don't think the game looks that bad at all and the press hyped it up to be a GT killer hardly the team.

    I agree. 26 MBs wasn't a big enough leap over previous generations.
    It was a Huge jump, the DC had the same sound Ram as the previous gen had for the main Ram.

    Sega GT might have Dolby Surround
    It doesn't like most of SEGA Japan Dreamcast games. Sega GT 2002 on the other hand had brilliant 5.1 support
    Last edited by Team Andromeda; 02-19-2018 at 12:44 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by bultje112 View Post
    Is the carrozeria mode different in pal compared to us?
    I remember playing the Pal version up my brothers and was shocked to see the mode cut and the total change the car handling. Like with the Pal version of SEGA Rally II, the Pal version of SEGA GT was horrible compared to the Japanese ver.
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  9. #1734
    Japanese Sonic CD FTW!!! Master of Shinobi Ecco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blades View Post
    That video is using a DC emulator, but you can still see how much better the PS2 port looks. Everything looks richer, and the reflections look much better.

    That video doesnít explore the excessive slowdown the DC version suffers from later in the game.
    ^I don't know how anyone can look at them both, and think the PS2 version looks better. It's obviously darker and blurry, whereas DC is brighter and has crisp detail.

    The refracted sunlight DOES actually look more dramatic on the ground, on PS2; however, the light effects seem overall diminished on PS2, so IMO the seabed resembles an animation on the ground, more than it resembles actual light effects.

    Also, I think it looks more dramatic on PS2 bc it's overall darker, and it would seem they brightened up the refracted sunlight, in response to everything becoming darker -- so it ends up looking more dramatic, but it's within a darker, blurrier gameplay experience.

    DC refracted sunlight might look less dramatic, but everything looks brighter and more real, and the light effects are bright, beautiful, and convincing. (I also suspect that the posted vid is not really doing justice for the DC graphics, maybe bc it's in such a small window.)

    PS2 did have a couple gameplay tweaks, so I'll believe you that there's less slowdown (although slowdown is not something that ever bothers me, after growing up with NES and Genesis lol).

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    Japanese Sonic CD FTW!!! Master of Shinobi Ecco's Avatar
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  11. #1736
    Raging in the Streets Blades's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ecco View Post
    ^I don't know how anyone can look at them both, and think the PS2 version looks better. It's obviously darker and blurry, whereas DC is brighter and has crisp detail.

    The refracted sunlight DOES actually look more dramatic on the ground, on PS2; however, the light effects seem overall diminished on PS2, so IMO the seabed resembles an animation on the ground, more than it resembles actual light effects.

    Also, I think it looks more dramatic on PS2 bc it's overall darker, and it would seem they brightened up the refracted sunlight, in response to everything becoming darker -- so it ends up looking more dramatic, but it's within a darker, blurrier gameplay experience.

    DC refracted sunlight might look less dramatic, but everything looks brighter and more real, and the light effects are bright, beautiful, and convincing. (I also suspect that the posted vid is not really doing justice for the DC graphics, maybe bc it's in such a small window.)

    PS2 did have a couple gameplay tweaks, so I'll believe you that there's less slowdown (although slowdown is not something that ever bothers me, after growing up with NES and Genesis lol).
    The DC version really chugs in some of the later levels, like the caves.

    I still think the lighting effects are better implemented on the PS2 and the DC wouldn't be able to handle it, as it was already chugging without them.

    Needless to say, I have both versions.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blades View Post
    The DC version really chugs in some of the later levels, like the caves.

    I still think the lighting effects are better implemented on the PS2 and the DC wouldn't be able to handle it, as it was already chugging without them.

    Needless to say, I have both versions.
    I agree that there is some massive slowdown on DC; I'm just saying that slow-down doesn't bother me, after growing up with NES and Genesis. (Like, I find slow-down more interesting than annoying lol.)

    I think the refracted sunlight seems a totally different effect in each version, so it's fair enough if you just like the PS2 effect better. It's a bit more pronounced / dramatic on PS2.

    But what I can't understand is how PS2's darker, blurrier graphics could possibly be preferred over the DC's brighter, crisper detailed graphics. To me it's way more important, and makes the refracted sunlight look better too.

    Who knows, maybe you have a better PS2 set-up than most people, or something like that lol.

    Also I hope the vid I posted helps to show that DC does have amazing sunlight effects, which just don't seem to show up in most videos.


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    Raging in the Streets Yharnamresident's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Team Andromeda View Post
    It doesn't like most of SEGA Japan Dreamcast games. Sega GT 2002 on the other hand had brilliant 5.1 support
    But have you ever tested it? like I've found out that tons of PS2 and PS1 games have Dolby Surround even if its not advertised on the box.

    Like soon I plan to test the Dramcast games I own to get a definite answer. Shenmue, Test Drive Le Mans, the Toyko Extreme Racers etc.


    Much later edit:

    what I mean by testing, is literally hook up the Dreamcast to a Dolby Surround receiver and see if you get any results.
    Last edited by Yharnamresident; 02-19-2018 at 10:25 PM.
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    Raging in the Streets Yharnamresident's Avatar
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    My download speeds were really good this afternoon, so I decided to do more benchmarks. What game was it?

    GTA III. You guys may be shocked by my results.



    The intro. 22000 * 30 = 660,000 polys per second



    a corner with a lot of pedestrians and 2 cars. 31200 * 30 = 936,000 polys per second





    Random outskirts. 15600 * 30 = 468,000 polys per second



    The highest polycount I could get. 6 cars on screen. 34700 * 30 = 1,041,000 polys per second

    I never saw this game reach 40000 polys per frame. Its usually between 15,000 and 30,000. So is GTA III doable on Dreamcast? in terms of polycounts, absolutely. But this brings us to our last point:

    The uncompressed ISO for this game is 4.3 GBs.
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