Quantcast

Page 123 of 139 FirstFirst ... 2373113119120121122123124125126127133 ... LastLast
Results 1,831 to 1,845 of 2075

Thread: PS2 vs Dreamcast Graphics

  1. #1831
    Master of Shinobi
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Posts
    1,017
    Rep Power
    28

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Yharnamresident View Post
    I tried, the Saturn uses quads which I don't think many polygon capture softwares will recognize. But as my knowledge about this stuff improves, I may find a way. I thought Zero Gunner 2 was impossible to document, until I found out NullDC will run it as a GDI and not a CDI.
    Use Yabause debugger to count the draw calls. From memory, most games use way less than 1000 polys on average per frame (at 30 fps at most...).

  2. #1832
    The Future Is Yesterday Hedgehog-in-TrainingRaging in the Streets SegataS's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Location
    My Chair
    Posts
    3,629
    Rep Power
    45

    Default

    This is how I have always felt but I hate how PS2 games look. The blurry washed out textures. Everything seems to have some dirty filter for the camera. Yakuza 1. Metal Gear Solid 2. MGS3. GTA 3/VC and SA. Models looked awful to me and bloom and bad textures even back then have always bothered me. I didn't see this issue on exclusives for the other 3 systems. Seems a lot of games had a grey or greenish hue to them. Bloom was an issue for many games that generation but it esp made games look worse on PS2. Those blurry washed out textures in MGS2 looked even more so. I don't normally get that worked up about graphics of all things but for whatever reason this stuff on PS2 always annoyed me to no end.



    Life!? ... What console is that on?

  3. #1833
    Hero of Algol
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    7,701
    Rep Power
    174

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Yharnamresident View Post
    I'm not trying to bust your balls, you do seem very educated about the topics you discuss. But the level of bias is very strong, higher than even Barone
    Lol.
    After all your dozens of tests in this thread you've just proved my point: in terms of polygons DC can't compete with PS2.
    Remember: the dominant narrative in this forum before I began to post in this thread was that most games of the 6th gen era were pushing just around 1 million PPS and DC could compete with PS2 in that aspect just fine.

    Also, when an actual developer of Burnout series jumped in this discussion he agreed with me and not with the other "non-biased" guys (sheath, ABF, etc.).

    Thing is Sega fanboys tend to hate way too much on anything Sony-related 'cause they like to believe Sony killed Sega and was the responsible for its failure.
    I've always challenged that narrative.

    You're lucky to be able to post all the stuff you want here nowadays without having sheath and ABF insulting you and pulling numbers and false info out of their asses to derail the thread on a regular basis.

  4. #1834
    The Future Is Yesterday Hedgehog-in-TrainingRaging in the Streets SegataS's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Location
    My Chair
    Posts
    3,629
    Rep Power
    45

    Default

    SEGA killed SEGA. Plain and simple.



    Life!? ... What console is that on?

  5. #1835
    Raging in the Streets Yharnamresident's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    British Columbia
    Posts
    3,404
    Rep Power
    57

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Barone View Post
    Lol.
    After all your dozens of tests in this thread you've just proved my point: in terms of polygons DC can't compete with PS2.
    During my research, I've noticed the PS2 has a huge polygonal advantage, but its not a night and day difference like Jaguar vs PS1/Saturn/N64.

    The purpose of posting these documentations is to show theres tons of Dreamcast games running at decent early 6th-gen polycounts(1 million-2 million PPS). It kept up in that regard.

    I've also found tons of Dreamcast(and PS2) games running at 300,000-500,000 PPS, I'll post some of them soon.

    Quote Originally Posted by Barone View Post
    Remember: the dominant narrative in this forum before I began to post in this thread was that most games of the 6th gen era were pushing just around 1 million PPS and DC could compete with PS2 in that aspect just fine.
    Yes games were mostly running at 1 million PPS in 1999, 2000, early 2001. In late 2001 is when we starting seeing developers utilizing the PS2 power, also the GameCube and OG Xbox arrived at that time, and even a couple Dreamcast games starting hitting 2-3 million PPS.

    Quote Originally Posted by Barone View Post
    Also, when an actual developer of Burnout series jumped in this discussion he agreed with me and not with the other "non-biased" guys (sheath, ABF, etc.).
    Yes but there was essentially no other members that agreed with him.

    Quote Originally Posted by Barone View Post
    Thing is Sega fanboys tend to hate way too much on anything Sony-related 'cause they like to believe Sony killed Sega and was the responsible for its failure.
    I've always challenged that narrative.
    Those do exist but I'm not one of them, Sony by far always made the best decisions out of any console manufacturer. Sega wasn't the worse at making decisions, but close to it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Barone View Post
    You're lucky to be able to post all the stuff you want here nowadays without having sheath and ABF insulting you and pulling numbers and false info out of their asses to derail the thread on a regular basis.
    Yes you and me both have had our fun debating with ABF, theres a certain console he worships.

    sheath was indeed a Dreamcast version of people who are heavily biased toward the PS2. I've had to call him out for being delusional, such as Dreamcast could handle F-Zero GX without degrades, not a chance in hell.


    Quote Originally Posted by zyrobs View Post
    Use Yabause debugger to count the draw calls. From memory, most games use way less than 1000 polys on average per frame (at 30 fps at most...).
    But thats not very elegant, especially for taking screenshots. But I haven't even tried Yabause yet so there may a configuration that works.

    Quote Originally Posted by SegataS View Post
    This is how I have always felt but I hate how PS2 games look. The blurry washed out textures. Everything seems to have some dirty filter for the camera. Yakuza 1. Metal Gear Solid 2. MGS3. GTA 3/VC and SA. Models looked awful to me and bloom and bad textures even back then have always bothered me. I didn't see this issue on exclusives for the other 3 systems. Seems a lot of games had a grey or greenish hue to them. Bloom was an issue for many games that generation but it esp made games look worse on PS2. Those blurry washed out textures in MGS2 looked even more so. I don't normally get that worked up about graphics of all things but for whatever reason this stuff on PS2 always annoyed me to no end.
    I still feel bloom is better than no effects at all. I wish Dreamcast developers found a simple form of bloom that they could've started using. I hate games that are nothing but bare bones polygons and textures.


    Also Barone my next post will be a significant one dedicated to you
    Certified F-Zero GX fanboy

  6. #1836
    Raging in the Streets Yharnamresident's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    British Columbia
    Posts
    3,404
    Rep Power
    57

    Default

    Burnout (2001, PS2)

    Average: 4.2 million polygons per second


    Yes thats right, this game runs at a constant 4.2 million PPS. This game probably had the highest polycount of any console game when it was released. I remember we were talking about this game a couple years ago, and no it is not possible on Dreamcast, unless they chopped the polycounts in half.




    2.75 million PPS



    5 million PPS



    3.5 million PPS



    4.2 million PPS



    4.5 million PPS
    Certified F-Zero GX fanboy

  7. #1837
    Raging in the Streets Yharnamresident's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    British Columbia
    Posts
    3,404
    Rep Power
    57

    Default

    Ikaruga (2002, DC)

    Average: 500,000 to 2.1 million polygons per second


    The very famous Ikaruga. This is my favourite Dreamcast game. A very unique sub-genre of shoot-em-ups, this game incorporated puzzles and I think it was executed perfectly. This game has stages running at 500,000 PPS, 1 million PPS, and 2.1 million PPS.





    This section always hits 1.7 million PPS. With that giant cylinder in the background.




    First boss. 1 million PPS




    Second stage first part. 1.9 million PPS




    Second stage first part. 2.1 million PPS




    Second stage exiting first part. 2.45 million PPS




    Second stage second part. 560,000 PPS
    Certified F-Zero GX fanboy

  8. #1838
    Raging in the Streets Team Andromeda's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Wales, UK
    Posts
    4,998
    Rep Power
    54

    Default

    Speaking of Renderware , how many Polygons does Trickstyle use on the DC. I've always thought that game looked awesome
    Panzer Dragoon Zwei is
    one of the best 3D shooting games available
    Presented for your pleasure

  9. #1839
    Raging in the Streets Yharnamresident's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    British Columbia
    Posts
    3,404
    Rep Power
    57

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Team Andromeda View Post
    Speaking of Renderware , how many Polygons does Trickstyle use on the DC. I've always thought that game looked awesome
    I haven't bothered checking it, the game runs at 30 FPS so I can already imagine its like 500,000 PPS
    Certified F-Zero GX fanboy

  10. #1840
    The Future Is Yesterday Hedgehog-in-TrainingRaging in the Streets SegataS's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Location
    My Chair
    Posts
    3,629
    Rep Power
    45

    Default

    Hate bloom lighting with a burning passion. I rather untextured models than bloom lighting and the proof is in Nier Automata.

    Ikaruga is a game where the art carries it, farther, than it's technical strides. Playing it on Switch in HD and it still looks like a modern game. Zero Gunner 2 doesn't even tho I love that game.



    Life!? ... What console is that on?

  11. #1841
    Raging in the Streets Team Andromeda's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Wales, UK
    Posts
    4,998
    Rep Power
    54

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Yharnamresident View Post
    I haven't bothered checking it, the game runs at 30 FPS so I can already imagine its like 500,000 PPS
    On a similar note Do you know how many Polygons Sega GT is pushing . Also love to know how many Polygons Virtual Striker 2 is pushing that game still looks stunning.
    Panzer Dragoon Zwei is
    one of the best 3D shooting games available
    Presented for your pleasure

  12. #1842
    Hero of Algol
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    7,701
    Rep Power
    174

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Yharnamresident View Post
    Burnout (2001, PS2)
    Yes thats right, this game runs at a constant 4.2 million PPS. This game probably had the highest polycount of any console game when it was released. I remember we were talking about this game a couple years ago, and no it is not possible on Dreamcast, unless they chopped the polycounts in half.
    Thanks for the info.
    IDK if you have means to measure de GC version, but IIRC it pulls of even higher numbers.

    I think it's only with Burnout 2 that they begin to really push the PS2 further than the GC.

  13. #1843
    End of line.. Hero of Algol gamevet's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Dallas, Texas
    Posts
    8,226
    Rep Power
    117

    Default

    I played Burnout 2 on the GC yesterday. I got the impression that it was a quick port at best. Maybe I was just disappointed about how tame the graphics were in comparison to the Burnout games on Xbox.
    Last edited by gamevet; 08-26-2019 at 08:55 AM.
    A Black Falcon: no, computer games and video games are NOT the same thing. Video games are on consoles, computer games are on PC. The two kinds of games are different, and have significantly different design styles, distribution methods, and game genre selections. Computer gaming and console (video) gaming are NOT the same thing."



  14. #1844
    Raging in the Streets Yharnamresident's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    British Columbia
    Posts
    3,404
    Rep Power
    57

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Team Andromeda View Post
    On a similar note Do you know how many Polygons Sega GT is pushing . Also love to know how many Polygons Virtual Striker 2 is pushing that game still looks stunning.
    The Trickstyle ISO was 300 MBs so I decided to look at the game. Yes it is indeed 500,000 PPS, the game has great lighting and transparency effects but those polycounts are meh. It seems Criterion didn't put much effort into their Dreamcast games.

    Sega GT has lukewarm performance, I feel they rushed the game because they thought Gran Turismo 3 was gonna be released much sooner than it was. The game could've ran at 60 FPS and without the PS1 lighting if they put in more effort.

    Virtual Striker 2 has good performance, though thats no surprise with those Sega of Japan 1st party sports games.

    You'll soon see screenshots of most of these games.

    Quote Originally Posted by Barone View Post
    Thanks for the info.
    IDK if you have means to measure de GC version, but IIRC it pulls of even higher numbers.

    I think it's only with Burnout 2 that they begin to really push the PS2 further than the GC.
    I can do PS2 and GameCube games during the winter. Right now I'm focusing on Dreamcast games before I take a break. But I definitely wanna see what F-Zero GX performs at.

    Quote Originally Posted by gamevet View Post
    I played Burnout 2 on the GC yesterday. I got the impression that it was a quick port at best. Maybe I was just disappointed about how tame the graphics were in comparison to the Burnout games on Xbox.
    Criterion probably wasn't interested in the GameCube and lacked motivation to create good ports, its the same with all those PS1 ports on Dreamcast.
    Certified F-Zero GX fanboy

  15. #1845
    Raging in the Streets Yharnamresident's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    British Columbia
    Posts
    3,404
    Rep Power
    57

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by zyrobs View Post
    Use Yabause debugger to count the draw calls. From memory, most games use way less than 1000 polys on average per frame (at 30 fps at most...).
    For future reference, do you find the draw calls in the VDP2 section of the debugger?

    As an experiment, I tried seeing if any version of Yabause would work with a polygon capture software. But I have no idea if its even using DirectX, and what version its using.
    Certified F-Zero GX fanboy

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 11 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 11 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •