Quantcast

Page 158 of 166 FirstFirst ... 58108148154155156157158159160161162 ... LastLast
Results 2,356 to 2,370 of 2482

Thread: PS2 vs Dreamcast Graphics

  1. #2356
    Hedgehog-in-Training Hedgehog-in-TrainingWildside Expert
    Join Date
    Aug 2018
    Posts
    157
    Rep Power
    5

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Yharnamresident View Post
    Virtua Athlete 2K runs at the same polycounts and at 60 FPS. With better shadows and textures. It also doesn't render characters that aren't on-screen. Yume Baken 99 reeks of the developers didn't have passion behind it and sloppily made it.

    Also Cloofoofoo I can't help but be curious, are you really interested in horse racing or just care about the technical aspects of these games? It doesn't really change anything. I got My Trackman but it'll also take me a while to post it.



    I see this thread has slowed down a lot. The right person just needs to reply to my thread at PCSX2 forums and that'll open up a lot of possibilities. I bet tons of you are curious about Burnout 3 polycounts. Of course thats after I finish Ready 2 Rumble Boxing: Round 2.
    Ha ha, cant compare hitmaker along with it sega budget to a noname low budget horse game.I think it was treyarch who said it best on their draconus dreamcast post mortem interview on gamasutra. They would have liked to create the next metal gear solid but realistically no one will hand them over that budget and that amount of time, gotta do the best you got with what you have been dealt with. Another thing they said was they believed sega and tried to push 100% to its spec sheet limit came to found sega wasnt being 100% truthful on how to reach those figures and their game had to be gutted polygon count wise. By the time they realized how to push the machine harder they were over budget and out of time. Point of this long winded story is you cant hold everyone by the same standard especially on the DC. Its not always lack of passion as it is lack of experience and understanding. Sometimes its even lack of priority , treyarch also admitted they could have done tony hawk proskater 60 fps but felt it was a needless optimization and frame locked it to 30 fps.

    Yume baken probably fell prey to to the spec sheets. It states the DC gpu does automatic x,y clipping on anything out of the screen and thats true it does( i guess technically its always rendering less than what the cpu is sending which might be the amounts we are capturing). But the polygons still have to be computed for transformations and lighting on the cpu so in order to reduce load you have to implement clipping at that stage before even sending to the gpu from what I understand.Becomes a balancing act because clipping can slow down performance as well so it becomes a balancing act of resources especially lighting.
    I care more of the technical aspects of how different devs prioritize their limited resources on my favorite console.If its just games Id play fighting vipers 2 and cosmic smash 24/7 , ha ha ha.

    I hope some one with insight responds, ever think of doing burnout 2 its on the game cube as well or did you already do that comparison between both console?

    I think ill handle mytrackman on my next post.

  2. #2357
    Hedgehog-in-Training Hedgehog-in-TrainingWildside Expert
    Join Date
    Aug 2018
    Posts
    157
    Rep Power
    5

    Default

    ok Next game is Digital Keiba Shinbun: My Trackman . This game is just odd. I dont think you can play it , you can easily see how it looks by just letting a demo pop up after certain time on the title screen. After a minute it hangs on nulldc.

    My trackman implements clipping unlike yume baken 99. It is limited to 30 fps but never runs on that, both demul(accurate emu) and nulldc render a frame rate of 15 fps. Seems to be high-ish poly(per frame). You know Yharnamresident is zerogs is to be believed then this runs close to virtua fighter 4 per frame count lol( yes yes i know not frame rate).

    56,687 tris per frame x 15 fps = 850K pps.



  3. #2358
    Raging in the Streets Yharnamresident's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    British Columbia
    Posts
    3,638
    Rep Power
    59

    Default

    I can only do a short post ATM, but SegaAMD is using Dolphin right now if he wants to give us some Burnout 2 statistics.
    Certified F-Zero GX fanboy

  4. #2359
    Hedgehog-in-Training Hedgehog-in-TrainingWildside Expert
    Join Date
    Feb 2019
    Posts
    228
    Rep Power
    2

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Yharnamresident View Post
    I can only do a short post ATM, but SegaAMD is using Dolphin right now if he wants to give us some Burnout 2 statistics.
    Burnout 2, Dolphin is 83k per frame in first level, game runs at 60fps.
    I measured the polygonal count in many GCN games using Dolphin 4.0, I mainly chose multplat games where PS2 beats GCN, but I also measured exclusive games, and games where GCN beats PS2. therefore, the counts don't represent the maximum value. I quoted you on page 10 of my topic ''was strategy''

    source: http://www.sega-16.com/forum/showthr...raphics/page16
    Last edited by SegaAMD; 10-23-2019 at 10:40 PM.

  5. #2360
    Hedgehog-in-Training Hedgehog-in-TrainingWildside Expert
    Join Date
    Feb 2019
    Posts
    228
    Rep Power
    2

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Cloofoofoo View Post
    My trackman implements clipping unlike yume baken 99. It is limited to 30 fps but never runs on that, both demul(accurate emu) and nulldc render a frame rate of 15 fps. Seems to be high-ish poly(per frame).
    56,687 tris per frame x 15 fps = 850K pps.
    Dreamcast has a limitation it's becoming visible as we deepen the comparatives, you can measure up to 80k per frame in wacky races, but it is worth remembering that this was forcing the engine using split screen mode, a cel shading game, now we have this game above, doing 60k per frame, but at 15fps, we can assume that SH4 is a bottleneck .

    This brings us back to ESPN Track Field, if Dreamcast really could lead with the game at least 30fps, they would have done, the difference between the two machines is quite large.

  6. #2361
    Raging in the Streets Yharnamresident's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    British Columbia
    Posts
    3,638
    Rep Power
    59

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by SegaAMD View Post
    I quoted you on page 10 of my topic ''was strategy''
    Let me get to it, I only get short breaks where I am able to post here.

    I will look at My Trackman, 15 FPS sounds insanely bad and it might actually be 24 FPS or such. 15 FPS is even worse than launch Saturn Daytona USA.

    And I think it would useless to create a Dreamcast game running higher than 60,000 polygons. Its gotten be taken into consideration that the console is from 1998, its just not designed for those numbers.
    Certified F-Zero GX fanboy

  7. #2362
    Hedgehog-in-Training Hedgehog-in-TrainingWildside Expert
    Join Date
    Aug 2018
    Posts
    157
    Rep Power
    5

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by SegaAMD View Post
    Dreamcast has a limitation it's becoming visible as we deepen the comparatives, you can measure up to 80k per frame in wacky races, but it is worth remembering that this was forcing the engine using split screen mode, a cel shading game, now we have this game above, doing 60k per frame, but at 15fps, we can assume that SH4 is a bottleneck .

    This brings us back to ESPN Track Field, if Dreamcast really could lead with the game at least 30fps, they would have done, the difference between the two machines is quite large.
    Sigh again with this narrative. This will be easy to dispel. My track man is an early game from 1999 from a company that went bust before release, so no nothing was becoming apparent. Do you also forget shenmue runs from 50k to 70k per frame at 30 fps? Or wacky races cruises at 65k and tops outcat 80k per frame. Sure 80k was split screen ( which is even more impressive considering the amount of calculations double) but 65k to 70k is single player. What do you say of that?

    Espn track and field ? Or did you forget Virtua athlete hitting 40k per frame at 60 fps. You pick and choose facts to suit your put down of the DC.

    The only thing I agree with you is that the sh4 was a major bottleneck. There's just too many things that can wreck performance main one being lighting ( over 3 lights and you're screwed). They should have considered a second a sh4 or held back the Dreamcast till a cheaper "naomi2" version was developed.

  8. #2363
    Hedgehog-in-Training Hedgehog-in-TrainingWildside Expert
    Join Date
    Aug 2018
    Posts
    157
    Rep Power
    5

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Yharnamresident View Post
    Let me get to it, I only get short breaks where I am able to post here.

    I will look at My Trackman, 15 FPS sounds insanely bad and it might actually be 24 FPS or such. 15 FPS is even worse than launch Saturn Daytona USA.

    And I think it would useless to create a Dreamcast game running higher than 60,000 polygons. Its gotten be taken into consideration that the console is from 1998, its just not designed for those numbers.
    Yeah 15 fps sounds bad but it is that. You can actually see that on a real DC. I think the game is frame limited to 30 fps but just hovers at 14 to 17 fps. It's not interactive so it's fine. Believe it or not there's a few psp and 3ds games are frame locked to 20 fps.( Some Digimon game on psp and medarot girls mission 3ds)

    Technically if according to segas spec sheet it can do 3 million polygons w/ 1 light then theoretically at 30 fps that's 100k polygons per frame. But knows if there's enough memory for that with out have to resort to psp type textures.
    Last edited by Cloofoofoo; 10-24-2019 at 04:04 PM.

  9. #2364
    Raging in the Streets Yharnamresident's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    British Columbia
    Posts
    3,638
    Rep Power
    59

    Default

    Yes Sega really shot themselves in the foot. They were trying to make the Dreamcast as easy as possible to program for, so that meant only 1 main processor. The program is 1 processor becomes easily burdened once you dump too many things on it, this is why you have co-processors. Every console since the 360 is multi-core or had co-processors.
    Certified F-Zero GX fanboy

  10. #2365
    Hedgehog-in-Training Hedgehog-in-TrainingWildside Expert
    Join Date
    Feb 2019
    Posts
    228
    Rep Power
    2

    Default

    Nice graphics 5:10 16:29


  11. #2366
    The Future Is Yesterday Hedgehog-in-TrainingRaging in the Streets SegataS's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Location
    My Chair
    Posts
    3,932
    Rep Power
    48

    Default

    For real? That game is shit (the legit worst game I ever played) and it always looked like shit. Always. It looked bad then and esp bad now. It had about the visual fidelity I expected of rushed licensed movie games or something. Trash from top to bottom. The models look bad. Has that hideous bloom and ugly textures that I was talking about before that so many PS2 games had. I want to gouge out my eyes.



    Life!? ... What console is that on?

  12. #2367
    Raging in the Streets Yharnamresident's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    British Columbia
    Posts
    3,638
    Rep Power
    59

    Default

    I've come to the conclusion, I might have to work around the PCSX2 duplicate polygons situation. It will be slightly more time-consuming than doing Dreamcast captures, but if I actually got a setup that works then thats all that matters.
    Certified F-Zero GX fanboy

  13. #2368
    ESWAT Veteran Team Andromeda's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Wales, UK
    Posts
    5,150
    Rep Power
    57

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Yharnamresident View Post
    Yes Sega really shot themselves in the foot. They were trying to make the Dreamcast as easy as possible to program for, so that meant only 1 main processor. The program is 1 processor becomes easily burdened once you dump too many things on it, this is why you have co-processors. Every console since the 360 is multi-core or had co-processors.
    Isn't that just being a little unfair? . The DC came out in 1998 and the 360 in 2005. Having one CPU doesn't always make the system easier to programme for does it? The N64 was said to be a nightmare to programme for and the SNES wasn't the easiest system to develop on compare to the Mega Drive. I think it was an interview with some British developers like Lionhead and Core who said the biggest issue with the DC was the lack of Ram and the speed of the memory.

    The OG Xbox only had one CPU and that was a beast of a system
    Panzer Dragoon Zwei is
    one of the best 3D shooting games available
    Presented for your pleasure

  14. #2369
    ESWAT Veteran Team Andromeda's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Wales, UK
    Posts
    5,150
    Rep Power
    57

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by SegaAMD View Post
    This brings us back to ESPN Track Field, if Dreamcast really could lead with the game at least 30fps, they would have done, the difference between the two machines is quite large.
    Not really. There's no way the DC would have been able to handle the Polygons, but it was quite clear Konami put nothing into the DC version and it was also a different team inside Konami handling the DC version and you're more than quick enough to point that out when a PS2 port looks worse than the DC version
    Panzer Dragoon Zwei is
    one of the best 3D shooting games available
    Presented for your pleasure

  15. #2370
    Raging in the Streets Yharnamresident's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    British Columbia
    Posts
    3,638
    Rep Power
    59

    Default

    After days of trying to find the right configuration, I feel I got one thats close enough. I found a super convenient way to delete the duplicate polygons. The PS2 is significantly harder to deal with for emulation, so I feel this is as close as I will get to perfection. Even if someone tells me a way to prevent PCSX2 from capturing duplicate polygons, it will only be a very minor convenience over my new setup.

    Also this bitmap interlaced picture is all I got to work with. In the future I will be capturing the emulator window like I do for Dreamcast games:




    1.05 million PPS. Yes for some reason the character shadows are upright.
    Certified F-Zero GX fanboy

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 2 users browsing this thread. (1 members and 1 guests)

  1. UgoMeamp

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •