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Thread: PS2 vs Dreamcast Graphics

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yharnamresident View Post
    Go to the GPU settings and change it from "D3D9hardware" to "D3D9software"

    Thanks that seems to have fixed it (I think)

    I loaded up the game Sly Cooper and the Thievous Raccoonius and did a snap shot and it looks like it had 104197 tris per frame in this part of the level (this was at the start with the roofscape) I think the game runs at 60FPS so that would be about 6.25 million polys/sec. Still figuring out Blender so haven't got it to render the image to screenshot it.

    Just look on my ISO folder and it seems I have an ISO of Black, I'm going to try roughly benchmarking that next.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cloofoofoo View Post
    I dunno about those games but airblade released in 2001 pushes around 140,000 triangles per frame at 60 fps(8.4 million polygons per second). Dark sumit does those figures as well ( again from 2001 ) on both GameCube and ps2. As well as xtreme g3( haven't tested the ps2 version but the game cube version pushes that amount). The generation for those consoles began with a bang. It would be interesting to see how much they sacrificed to use more post process effects. It's seems the ps2 doesn't sacrifice much for lighting or texture.
    Xg3, nice. BG;DA 140k per frame too (at least in the gamecube, because ps2 has 2x supersampling, so I don't know if the game reaches that count there)

    i will test (i am testing here) XG3, Blood Omen 2, F1 2002, burnout 2, timesplaters 3 and viewtfull joe. I'll post the results later, but not to miss the post Soul calibur 2 averages 50k per frame and peak 70k per frame.
    Last edited by SegaAMD; Yesterday at 06:02 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by stu View Post

    I loaded up the game Sly Cooper and the Thievous Raccoonius and did a snap shot and it looks like it had 104197 tris per frame in this part of the level (this was at the start with the roofscape) I think the game runs at 60FPS so that would be about 6.25 million polys/sec. Still figuring out Blender so haven't got it to render the image to screenshot it.
    Great ! I tested Tak 1 and it did 100k per frame, Crash of Cortex 100k, but I suspect Twinsanity should do more than that. Later, try some fps, killzone, Medal of honor rising sun (tested here in Dolphin, but not showing) Area 51, Project Snowblind, Matrix path of neo.

    Wow! maybe ps2 really is a polygonal monster..
    Last edited by SegaAMD; Yesterday at 07:46 PM.

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    Does anyone have the polygon count to Demon Chaos, Ace Combat 4 and Zone of the Ender's 2 ? Those looked insanely good on the PS2
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    Quote Originally Posted by SegaAMD View Post
    Great ! I tested Tak 1 and he did 100k per frame, Crash of Cortex 100k, but I suspect Twinsanity should do more than that. Later, try some fps, killzone, Medal of honor rising sun (tested here in Dolphin, but not showing) Area 51, Project Snowblind, Matrix path of neo.

    Wow! maybe ps2 really is a polygonal monster..
    If it makes u feel better soul Calibur 3 pushes 40k to 90k . I am guessing they had to make room for the warping effects plus bloom and motion blur as well for the nice lighting. It really is a monster but can be rather well balanced in some cases.

    I think games like that can be run on the DC( wack races runs nearly 80k tris per frame with cell shading but simplistic lighting). Keep it 30 fps one or two directional light sources just to make sure to push as many polygons as possible. Sure they won't look the same but it's better than nothing. Just look at Virtua fighter 32x compared to arcade.

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    Well I did a quick benchmark of Black and it looks like in the snapshots I took Blender is showing 103,576 tris per frame, this was the 1st mission at the start with 3 or 4 bad guys on the screen shooting me..lol. Not sure if this is a 60fps game, (it ran awful on my PC..lol) but if it is then thats in excess of 6 million polys/sec still.

    I have Killzone on disc so I'll try booting that one up later and will update.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SegaAMD View Post
    I know it is very labor intensive and time consuming but (if possible) I would like the polygonal counts of Silent Hill 3. mgs 3, gow, FF12, Bujingai, Katamari Damacy.

    I find it hard for any of these to reach more than 100k per scene, I feel that the gen's final was around 3kk polygons for 30fps games and sub-5kk for 60fps games. I Feel there was also a loss of interest in pushing polygons, devs opted to add more light sources and textures
    Yes, I don't want to sound pretentious but it is very time consuming. Tons of moving files and trying different configurations if a game doesn't work. I'm getting burned out. I got a list of Dreamcast games in my browser tab to look through, then once I'm done those I need a break.

    The purpose of what I'm doing, is to show theres tons of Dreamcast games with decent polycounts. The problem was never that the Dreamcast can only do 3 million PPS, its that most developers weren't trying to reach those numbers. So many developers were aiming for 1 million PPS and then calling it a day.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cloofoofoo View Post
    If it makes u feel better soul Calibur 3 pushes 40k to 90k .
    .
    90k is a very good number for such a beautiful fighting game, not even Tekken reaches that count. VF4 also pushes something like 90k peak, I will test here Bloody Roar from GC; DOA 3 xbox has a legend that pushes 8 million, so it would be 140k per frame. but unfortunately there is no way to check.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cloofoofoo View Post
    One kinda off topic question. How long does it take to get a comment approved? I had posted a comparison between world series baseball 2k1 and gekitou pro yakyuu (both made by Sega wow using same engine). It still hasn't been approved.
    Can you still access the text you wrote? Why not try copying it, and then create a completely new thread for it

    Quote Originally Posted by stu View Post
    Thanks that seems to have fixed it (I think)

    I loaded up the game Sly Cooper and the Thievous Raccoonius and did a snap shot and it looks like it had 104197 tris per frame in this part of the level (this was at the start with the roofscape) I think the game runs at 60FPS so that would be about 6.25 million polys/sec. Still figuring out Blender so haven't got it to render the image to screenshot it.
    But you gotta make sure you are getting accurate numbers. Like I'm using the same emulator, and I captured Harvest Moon and it said 34,000 polygons. I thought that couldn't be right, So I looked at the wireframe and every polygon had a duplicate of itself.

    Quote Originally Posted by SegaAMD View Post
    .
    90k is a very good number for such a beautiful fighting game, not even Tekken reaches that count. VF4 also pushes something like 90k peak, I will test here Bloody Roar from GC; DOA 3 xbox has a legend that pushes 8 million, so it would be 140k per frame. but unfortunately there is no way to check.
    8 million PPS is very believable for OG Xbox.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yharnamresident View Post
    8 million PPS is very believable for OG Xbox.
    I also find it believable, the numbers are very close to those of VF4 Naomi 2, each character has about 14-16k, detailed stages, superb lighting, Tekken 4 is a nice graphic IMO, but xbox's DOA is in another league (doa 2 ultimate it's really cool). not even Rumble Roses can with doa3 (OG xbox launch game).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yharnamresident View Post
    But you gotta make sure you are getting accurate numbers. Like I'm using the same emulator, and I captured Harvest Moon and it said 34,000 polygons. I thought that couldn't be right, So I looked at the wireframe and every polygon had a duplicate of itself.




    How do you know that this figure is not accurate? The way the PS2 does multipass effects is by effectively drawing the same geometry multiple times - in effect utilizing overdraw, adding effects for each pass.
    The other thing is that the PS2 does not have Hidden Surface Removal so what you might be interpreting as duplicates might actually be how the PS2 is processing the scene.
    The final point is that we're relying on graphics plug ins that are not made by Sony and might not be entirely accurate in the 1st place.


    Anyway, I'll pulled some games from my PS2 collection and hope to do some light analysis to see how they perform over the next few days (assuming they will work in this creaky emulator)

    They are:
    Killzone

    Burnout - Revenge

    World Rally Championship

    DT Racer


    Hope to look at more as well.

    (ps unless the site itself implodes and won't let me post! Editing for the 3rd time because the site keeps fucking up my post's formatting ffs)
    Last edited by stu; Yesterday at 11:50 PM. Reason: Editing because the site keeps fucking up my formatting and shit

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yharnamresident View Post
    Can you still access the text you wrote? Why not try copying it, and then create a completely new thread for it

    But you gotta make sure you are getting accurate numbers. Like I'm using the same emulator, and I captured Harvest Moon and it said 34,000 polygons. I thought that couldn't be right, So I looked at the wireframe and every polygon had a duplicate of itself.

    8 million PPS is very believable for OG Xbox.
    That might actually be multipass effects. The ps2 like the Dreamcast has to do that per additional texture surface. Not to mention some games actually use another mesh sometimes transparent applied on top of the main mesh for environment map purpose. Like super run about on the dreamcast. Or cart flag to flag credits where the cars have a whole duplicate mesh just for environment map.

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    How many Polygons does World Series Baseball 2k2 handled? At the time that game came out, I think it was and still is the best looking DC sports game
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    Quote Originally Posted by SegaAMD View Post
    I also find it believable, the numbers are very close to those of VF4 Naomi 2, each character has about 14-16k, detailed stages, superb lighting, Tekken 4 is a nice graphic IMO, but xbox's DOA is in another league (doa 2 ultimate it's really cool). not even Rumble Roses can with doa3 (OG xbox launch game).
    Virtua fighter 4 on Naomi 2 last I extracted was around 111,000 polygons per frame(nearly all games on Naomi 2 run at that count except for soul surfer who does a low 40,000 polygons per frame and initial d who goes higher slightly.) @ 60 fps. Like I said the ps2 had already pushed past that with airblade pushing 130k and higher Tris per frame @ 60fps . But I guess Naomi 2 can maintain that count with a crap ton of lights and great texture quality.

    Wouldn't be surprised if the og Xbox was doing more.

    Can you still access the text you wrote? Why not try copying it, and then create a completely new thread for it
    No I can't. IAM just gonna have to redo it. It wasn't long anyway
    Last edited by Cloofoofoo; Today at 11:55 AM.

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