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Thread: PS2 vs Dreamcast Graphics

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    RPG,Dreamcast, EGG and skies of arcadia.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cloofoofoo View Post
    It was standard lighting used in most if not all dreamcast games, its probably just ambient term/lighting to simulate indirect lighting for outdoor scenes which makes it look overly bright. Then they probably used directional light sources for the characters. N64,ps1 ,dc even some ps2 games do it like that. Looking at gamecube shots it looks like the overly bright look was fixed.
    I meant Time Stalkers is the game with crappy lighting/shadows. It gives me vibes of Mario 64.


    Quote Originally Posted by Cloofoofoo View Post
    I looked over Ferrari f355 challenge and I dont see anything at take off. It just looks like to me they programmed camera movement to simulate being inside a car.
    It only appears in the patched 3rd person version, its either a glitch or an effect they didn't bring to the 1st person mode.


    So I was doing some research, are you telling me the Dreamcast actually received the main Naomi racing games, theres none that are exclusive to the Naomi? Some of you may be thinking of Initial D, but that was for Naomi 2, which is too different from the Dreamcast.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yharnamresident View Post
    I meant Time Stalkers is the game with crappy lighting/shadows. It gives me vibes of Mario 64.


    It only appears in the patched 3rd person version, its either a glitch or an effect they didn't bring to the 1st person mode.


    So I was doing some research, are you telling me the Dreamcast actually received the main Naomi racing games, theres none that are exclusive to the Naomi? Some of you may be thinking of Initial D, but that was for Naomi 2, which is too different from the Dreamcast.
    Oh that. That's not an effect, the camera goes around the car and tries to into first person then it's stopped by the hack making it micro stutter for just a split second.

    Well for the most part. It didn't get the wave racing game though.

    Initial d port could have been possible but by that time dc was dead. The initial d game was ported to psp where it ran something like 800k to 1.5 million Tris per second at 30 fps. Definitely doable, maybe textures could have even been improved.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cloofoofoo View Post
    Oh that. That's not an effect, the camera goes around the car and tries to into first person then it's stopped by the hack making it micro stutter for just a split second.
    I was planning to take a screenshot to show you, but it doesn't even show up in a screenshot. Screw it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cloofoofoo View Post
    Initial d port could have been possible but by that time dc was dead. The initial d game was ported to psp where it ran something like 800k to 1.5 million Tris per second at 30 fps. Definitely doable, maybe textures could have even been improved.
    One thing thats significantly lacking on the Dreamcast, is core 6th gen racing games. Sure it has Tokyo Xtreme Racer 2, Test Drive Le Mans, F355 Challenge 3rd Person, but those games are from 2000 and there was tons of improvements made to racing games during the generation. Imagine if it got a port of R:Racing Evolution, V-Rally 3, Initial D or Tokyo Xtreme Racer: Drift. The Dreamcast only got very early 6th gen racing games.
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    Also I didn't mention Burnout 1 because thats one of the games that utilizes the PS2 strengths and would be relatively gimped on Dreamcast.
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    I remember really liking that game on Gamecube. Thinking it looked amazing. Tho nothing came close to blowing my mind like Project Gotham Racing. MTSR and Vanishing point at the time in magazines looked so realistic. Partly because they took photo's and just used them as textures. At that time tho DC had such sharp textures the shadows looked convincing and such. Then PGR had morning/evening sun glistening off the road in a realistic way. Little things like that are why I like that generation of racing games. It was new. Now we fully expect it and now it's dull to me. Just more amazed at what they did with the hardware of the era. Oh. and of course, we will never see branded cars destroyed like that again.



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    Quote Originally Posted by Yharnamresident View Post
    Also I didn't mention Burnout 1 because thats one of the games that utilizes the PS2 strengths and would be relatively gimped on Dreamcast.
    I didn't like the look of the game at all, wasn't a fan of Burnout 2 either. Both games had that horrible Renderware sheen look, much like the shading used on Sonic in Sonic Heroes.
    Burnout 3 on the PS2 was incredible mind as was Need for Speed Hot Pursuit 2 which was just one of the best looking racers of that generation
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    Quote Originally Posted by SegataS View Post
    I remember really liking that game on Gamecube. Thinking it looked amazing. Tho nothing came close to blowing my mind like Project Gotham Racing. MTSR and Vanishing point at the time in magazines looked so realistic. Partly because they took photo's and just used them as textures. At that time tho DC had such sharp textures the shadows looked convincing and such.
    The problem with Vanishing Point is they went too far to make sure the game stays at a locked 60 FPS. The game has pure PS1 roadside detail.

    Quote Originally Posted by SegataS View Post
    Then PGR had morning/evening sun glistening off the road in a realistic way. Little things like that are why I like that generation of racing games. It was new. Now we fully expect it and now it's dull to me. Just more amazed at what they did with the hardware of the era. Oh. and of course, we will never see branded cars destroyed like that again.
    That could've been some per-pixel lighting.
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    Do particles count as polygons? I see in ps2 games a strong emphasis on particles, things we don't see on other consoles, fog effects, falling snow, smoke, dust, individual grasses, sparks, so I imagine ps2 might not even make the polygons it promised, but its particles and draw distance are the largest in the category, the machine is so powerful that it can simulate fur effects. I would love to know how to program, would make a clone of Shenmue and Mario Galaxi for PS2, a tech demo.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SegaAMD View Post
    Do particles count as polygons? I see in ps2 games a strong emphasis on particles, things we don't see on other consoles, fog effects, falling snow, smoke, dust, individual grasses, sparks, so I imagine ps2 might not even make the polygons it promised, but its particles and draw distance are the largest in the category, the machine is so powerful that it can simulate fur effects. I would love to know how to program, would make a clone of Shenmue and Mario Galaxi for PS2, a tech demo.
    Usually particles are just triangles generated from a source point. Different behaviors can be programmed and even physics/collisions. I think on the Dreamcast since it had a special Sprite mode( renders quads instead of triangles) not sure how 2d partitles would perform.

    I am not sure how far shader is done properly as I don't care much for it but IAM sure that can easily be imitated on the DC. Just layer up multiples of the same model with punch through textures of fur texture and it should perform better because punch through polygons have the same performance to opaque polygons. I think if you look at the Naomi game spikers battle and look at Alberto's afro you will see what I mean.

    Edit: I looked it up and that's how it's pretty much done on the ps2 game shadow of the colossus( the way I said up there, guessed it right). Just used to a large degree all over the mesh and with different layers of texture to control specular. While the technique on the ps2 is fill rate hungry if you skip the extra texture for specular and just layer the fur on each other using punchthrough texture on the DC like I said before it should give similar if not same result which same performance of opaque polygon fill rate which is high on the Dreamcast.

    Last edited by Cloofoofoo; 11-22-2019 at 09:29 AM.

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    The more I look into the fur shader it seems like this effect could have been easier to pull off on the DC than ps2. The Dreamcast deals well with over draw and punch through fill rate. After all the effect is just multiple layers of a body part copied and moved slightly over to create the effect of hair/fur/grass using 3 different punchthrough fur tiling texture. Using vertex colors to tint the fur. This could have been something good on the DC.

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    So I've been thinking. I haven't spent much time with Shenmue II. Could it overtake Sakura Wars 4 as the best graphics on the Dreamcast?

    The reason I'm wondering this, is it was released in late 2001. So it is in the final late 2001/early 2002 days of non-shoot em up Dreamcast.
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    Another thing, Shenmue II was released at the same month as Ico so it shows its kinda part of the core 6th gen games era.
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    In terms of PPS? Maybe. It has a lot of huge open areas and a lot of NPCs on screen at once but they do tend to look blocky, more so than the first game. Some buildings have hundreds of rooms to explore. Mostly empty but there.

    When you get to Man Moe temple. The wall just across from Man Moe has some really sharp textures as I recall.



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    Quote Originally Posted by Yharnamresident View Post
    So I've been thinking. I haven't spent much time with Shenmue II. Could it overtake Sakura Wars 4 as the best graphics on the Dreamcast?

    The reason I'm wondering this, is it was released in late 2001. So it is in the final late 2001/early 2002 days of non-shoot em up Dreamcast.
    You can't go by dates. Shenmue 2 was mostly already done by the time shenmue 1 was releasing. Some of the earliest trailers already show areas you could visit in honkong in a shenmue 1 trailer! Sakura wars 4 while low in polygon count is more balanced graphics wise for it's use of effects making it look more modern.

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