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Thread: PS2 vs Dreamcast Graphics

  1. #2341
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yharnamresident View Post
    Yesterday I had a feeling it was interlacing. I tried capturing a progressive scan game(Burnout 3) but it still gave me duplicate polygons. But I'll try switching mid game.

    Eventually I tried Burnout 3 in ZeroGS, it looked like garbage but I got accurate results. In Time Trial mode this game runs at 1.7-2.4 million PPS. How the hell could this section be running at Dreamcast polycounts? Well this game is decked out in everything. I mean everything. High-res textures, shine maps on the roads, bloom, motion blur, particle effects, radiant blur, all this stuff takes up a lot of RAM.
    How are you capturing on zero gs? Or are you using the built in polygons per frame counter on top?

    Why are you surprised? If the game has to draw the geometry/ full screen? Multiple times you kinda have budget polygons. Not to mention I hear this game was a particle demon on the ps2, processing power is bound to go elsewhere. Not to mention if it has a lot of light sources that's gotta be hefty. Then there's memory limite, has to load code , assets and assorted framebuffers for post process use and what not.

    Is there a game cube version? Maybe if some one could compare the two we can see how exact is it.

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    Raging in the Streets Yharnamresident's Avatar
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    I tried changing to different interlace modes, doesn't do anything. The same 13 MB obj file gets produced which means duplicate polygons. This is really frustrating. I think I might have to go to the PCSX2 forums to see if they know whats going on. I know they didn't design this feature to give duplicate polygons.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cloofoofoo View Post
    How are you capturing on zero gs? Or are you using the built in polygons per frame counter on top?

    Why are you surprised? If the game has to draw the geometry/ full screen? Multiple times you kinda have budget polygons. Not to mention I hear this game was a particle demon on the ps2, processing power is bound to go elsewhere. Not to mention if it has a lot of light sources that's gotta be hefty. Then there's memory limite, has to load code , assets and assorted framebuffers for post process use and what not.

    Is there a game cube version? Maybe if some one could compare the two we can see how exact is it.
    Yes using the window counter at the top. Its very convenient, but this plugin is too outdated. Its time to move on with a better setup.

    Well its a game from 2004. I wasn't expecting super high polycounts, but not at Dreamcast levels. However I only tried the Time Trial mode.

    Theres no GameCube version. I think 2004 was when the GameCube was starting to die.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yharnamresident View Post
    Yes using the window counter at the top. Its very convenient, but this plugin is too outdated. Its time to move on with a better setup.

    Well its a game from 2004. I wasn't expecting super high polycounts, but not at Dreamcast levels. However I only tried the Time Trial mode.

    Theres no GameCube version. I think 2004 was when the GameCube was starting to die.
    I don't think zerogs takes into account mult texture. Gives me a really low read out on Virtua fighter 4 Evo. Like 30k to 40k per frame. I know for a fact the characters have a extra layer of texture that imitates the specular the naomi2/DC based hardware can do because I have extracted the "shine texture" from that game in the past.

    For comparison remember my fighting vipers 2 DC highest capture was 29k in the frame. Seems kinda wrong doesn't it?

    I think it might be best to test ps2 games that have a GameCube counter part

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cloofoofoo View Post
    I don't think zerogs takes into account mult texture. Gives me a really low read out on Virtua fighter 4 Evo. Like 30k to 40k per frame. I know for a fact the characters have a extra layer of texture that imitates the specular the naomi2/DC based hardware can do because I have extracted the "shine texture" from that game in the past.

    For comparison remember my fighting vipers 2 DC highest capture was 29k in the frame. Seems kinda wrong doesn't it?

    I think it might be best to test ps2 games that have a GameCube counter part
    Well remember I was getting duplicate polygons, its an exact duplicate of what ZeroGS says. Like the duplicate polygons would say 70,000, while ZeroGS says 35,000.

    Also I tried using Ninja Ripper with PCSX2, it completely lacks the convenience of 3D Ripper. 100%. Its no substitute.

    So I feel the only option is to make a thread at PCSX2 forums.


    Also Cloofoofoo try Virtua Fighter 4 in PCSX2 1.2.1. For some reason they brought back ZeroGS for that version. For some reason, ZeroGS gives different polycount amounts in the version of PCSX2 its being used in, PCSX2 1.2.1 was the one I was using for Burnout 3.
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    Yes I've decided, the next step is to create a thread at PCSX2 forums. There might be a PCSX2 developer that knows whats going on from his knowledge of how the emulator operates internally. Gonna do it in the morning though.
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    How many Polygons does Blue Stinger push I'll also like to know how many polygons Giant Gram 2000 (Giant Gram 3 ) pushes
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yharnamresident View Post
    Yes I've decided, the next step is to create a thread at PCSX2 forums. There might be a PCSX2 developer that knows whats going on from his knowledge of how the emulator operates internally. Gonna do it in the morning though.
    Ok I'll wait for your update on that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Team Andromeda View Post
    How many Polygons does Blue Stinger push I'll also like to know how many polygons Giant Gram 2000 (Giant Gram 3 ) pushes
    I haven't done extraction on blue stinger in a long time so I can't answer that, all I know it isn't a whole lot despite the characters and enemies are high poly for 1998. But what I did do in the other thread was go through the disc and extract the character models.

    Elliot , dogs and jenine range from a a predictable 2,500 to a 3,000 triangles per character. The stage peices can range from 3,000 Tris hallway to a bigger set of 10,000 Tris. Here's a link to the thread, there's more things like bosses and enemy polygon count : https://forum.beyond3d.com/posts/2077183/
    I don't use emulator to measure models in that thread , I always extract directly from files.

    Giant gram can't help you there's it's been too long.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cloofoofoo View Post
    I haven't done extraction on blue stinger in a long time so I can't answer that, all I know it isn't a whole lot despite the characters and enemies are high poly for 1998. But what I did do in the other thread was go through the disc and extract the character models.

    Elliot , dogs and jenine range from a a predictable 2,500 to a 3,000 triangles per character. The stage peices can range from 3,000 Tris hallway to a bigger set of 10,000 Tris. Here's a link to the thread, there's more things like bosses and enemy polygon count : https://forum.beyond3d.com/posts/2077183/
    I don't use emulator to measure models in that thread , I always extract directly from files.

    Giant gram can't help you there's it's been too long.
    Wow, thanks for the info. I really liked Blue Stinger as a game and thought it looked great at the time too. A shame the western version had the camera angle changed
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    Before I create that PCSX2 forum thread, might as well get something out of the way.
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    Whats the situation with Yume Baken 99?

    This is one of the rare Dreamcast games that only run interlaced. It appears to be a locked 30 FPS despite what NullDC says. This game is very sloppily made, part of that is its interlaced. Theres no reason it couldn't have been running at a locked 60 FPS, considering theres no AI, physics, input, etc.




    All the horses on screen. 1.2 million PPS




    Horses in distance. 850,000 PPS




    1 million PPS




    As you can see what I mean by sloppily made, this game still renders horses that aren't even on the screen. 1.05 million PPS
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    I also got this done, now we just wait and see:https://forums.pcsx2.net/Thread-I-m-...licate-amounts
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yharnamresident View Post
    Whats the situation with Yume Baken 99?

    This is one of the rare Dreamcast games that only run interlaced. It appears to be a locked 30 FPS despite what NullDC says. This game is very sloppily made, part of that is its interlaced. Theres no reason it couldn't have been running at a locked 60 FPS, considering theres no AI, physics, input, etc.




    All the horses on screen. 1.2 million PPS




    Horses in distance. 850,000 PPS




    1 million PPS




    As you can see what I mean by sloppily made, this game still renders horses that aren't even on the screen. 1.05 million PPS
    It has physics. Rudimentary but basic physics is there and collision. Well it's a early game and your looking 8+ models animated simultaneously could be CPU draining.
    At 40,000 per frame it probably would require more optimization than needed to get an a non interactive display up to 60fps ,not worth the effort. The clipping has an easy explanation, on the DC it's done on the CPU they didn't want to bother wasting cpu time on that.

    You should try my trackman, that one is mind boggling. It MIGHT 30 fps locked but it's runs 14-17 fps. Confirmed on demul. Tremendous amount of polygon per frame for such a simple "GAME".

    The frame rate might be unlocked, have to check on demul to be sure. Tested it too long ago might have actually ran at 40 fps during races.

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    Virtua Athlete 2K runs at the same polycounts and at 60 FPS. With better shadows and textures. It also doesn't render characters that aren't on-screen. Yume Baken 99 reeks of the developers didn't have passion behind it and sloppily made it.

    Also Cloofoofoo I can't help but be curious, are you really interested in horse racing or just care about the technical aspects of these games? It doesn't really change anything. I got My Trackman but it'll also take me a while to post it.



    I see this thread has slowed down a lot. The right person just needs to reply to my thread at PCSX2 forums and that'll open up a lot of possibilities. I bet tons of you are curious about Burnout 3 polycounts. Of course thats after I finish Ready 2 Rumble Boxing: Round 2.
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