Quantcast

Page 171 of 171 FirstFirst ... 71121161167168169170171
Results 2,551 to 2,561 of 2561

Thread: PS2 vs Dreamcast Graphics

  1. #2551
    Hedgehog-in-Training Hedgehog-in-TrainingWildside Expert
    Join Date
    Aug 2018
    Posts
    186
    Rep Power
    6

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Yharnamresident View Post
    Segata I can't quote you but that game is from 2003.


    So I know I got a ton of tasks I still gotta do, but what do you guys think of a Gradius V and Chaos Field comparison?
    Quote Originally Posted by SegaAMD View Post
    This part of your comment is wrong, there was no sacrifice for Ratchet and Clank to run over 6M PPS, PS2 can't suffer to run a game made for it, the 8 bit palletized textures, there are many myths, as if it were synonymous with low quality but the truth is that 8 bit palletizing is the way the PS2 works the textures in all its games (in all its games). The method is to store the textures in fewer colors and then apply filters to it. Works as a form of texture compression on PS2 hardware.

    I disagree that DC has better textures than PS2 in games that use the power of PS2, for example in Half Life 2001 Dreamcast operates using VQ compression to 16 Bit color, PS2 operates as always palletizing at 8 bit for a final result at 24 bit color, textures in Half life are better on PS2, this is just an example to show that there is a myth involving palletized textures.
    If a paletted texture is 8 bit then all it has 256 colors for the whole image and probably color look up separately.I think you're quite confused. The ps2 used these ALOT . The Dreamcast is way above that using 16bit texture. If the ps2 was using 8 bit per channel in rgb that would make it a 24 bit texture(32 bit including alpha) and not paletted. There were a few tricks I hear the ps2 can do but those are complicated. Like I said you sound massively confused. If you don't believe me you will find people who look into texture converters ps2 mention this , heck the ps2 even used 4 bit(16colors for Christ sake) textures at times. Youre massively wrong and should do more research on this.
    Last edited by Cloofoofoo; 12-03-2019 at 07:34 PM.

  2. #2552
    Hedgehog-in-Training Hedgehog-in-TrainingWildside Expert
    Join Date
    Feb 2019
    Posts
    249
    Rep Power
    2

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Cloofoofoo View Post
    If a paletted texture is 8 bit then all it has 256 colors for the whole image and probably color look up separately.I think you're quite confused. The ps2 used these ALOT . The Dreamcast is way above that using 16bit texture. If the ps2 was using 8 bit per channel in rgb that would make it a 24 bit texture(32 bit including alpha) and not paletted. There were a few tricks I hear the ps2 can do but those are complicated. Like I said you sound massively confused. If you don't believe me you will find people who look into texture converters ps2 mention this , heck the ps2 even used 4 bit(16colors for Christ sake) textures at times. Youre massively wrong and should do more research on this.
    maybe i might have got it wrong look there and your opinion from 9:36-10:20



    DF Retro Half Life starts 9:36-10:20

    edit too
    Last edited by SegaAMD; 12-03-2019 at 09:06 PM.

  3. #2553
    Hedgehog-in-Training Hedgehog-in-TrainingWildside Expert
    Join Date
    Aug 2018
    Posts
    186
    Rep Power
    6

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by SegaAMD View Post
    maybe i might have got it wrong look there and your opinion from 9:36-10:20

    Yeah the stuff u were saying was flat out wrong. The video you posted doesn't work so what are you trying to show me? What do you mean my opinion on those time stamps?

    But yeah, it's not that the ps2 can't do higher quality texture, it's just that ram anxiety drove devs to use very low color textures like 4 bit and 8 bit despite of rez. If you understand that now then you know that it's a step down / compromise using 16bit color depth which allows tens of thousands of colors. Then they had to do hackey things to get multiplicative blending because it only supported additive blending bit some times that isn't enough when you want bright/overblown " brightness" in speculars and other effects.

  4. #2554
    Hedgehog-in-Training Hedgehog-in-TrainingWildside Expert
    Join Date
    Aug 2018
    Posts
    186
    Rep Power
    6

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by SegaAMD View Post
    maybe i might have got it wrong look there and your opinion from 9:36-10:20



    DF Retro Half Life starts 9:36-10:20

    edit too
    Had to Google it up separately. It's rendered 24 bit framebuffer on ps2(DC is 16 bit BUT INTERNALLY it's 24bit, GPU feature) with higher resolution textures but more color limited as they are 8 bit(low color) with complete lack of mip maps( doesn't do it in hardware and takes up much more vram which it lacks), the textures are probably twiddled(usually is when compressed in DC format) most likely giving it free bilinear on the dc, usually standard. Then you forgot to mention the DC version is unfinished and runs on the slower windows ce instead of the katana sdk.

    Edit: I think this just illustrates multiplat wouldn't been so bad on the DC, this is basically handicap by running on Windows ce yet it's comparable. Oh and before you say the character models are 2x the detail on the ps2 you have to realize the ps2 uses multiple models for lod on ps2 so they aren't always that high while on the dreamcast the model is always the same despite camera distance. This is the only thing preventing bring able to import ps2 models to the DC, heck the ps2 only campaign was hacked to work on the DC BTW ( at least partially due incompatible map settings/commands)
    Last edited by Cloofoofoo; Yesterday at 07:34 AM.

  5. #2555
    Hedgehog-in-Training Hedgehog-in-TrainingWildside Expert
    Join Date
    Feb 2019
    Posts
    249
    Rep Power
    2

    Default

    delete this post above that contains the video, enter to edit and the first box up there has the option delete


    I don't believe that windows CE interferes with textures, can interfere with performance, loadings etc yes but not textures. Let's not deny the facts, PS2 uses palletized textures as usual and has about 1MB for texture caching, Dreamcast other hand is using VQ compression, which in theory could give dreamcast up to 30MB of textures ... apart from that it has 8MB, in paper huge diference in fact things are much more complex

    We can clearly see that the PS2 has a higher texture resolution, better colors, better texture overall, I know these things don't make you cool as it refutes your belief of Dreamcast texture superiority.

    It shows that both DC compression and its larger memory were not enough to produce a better result than the simple 4MB Vram, 1MB for texture cache and 8 bit palletized.

  6. #2556
    Hedgehog-in-Training Hedgehog-in-TrainingWildside Expert
    Join Date
    Aug 2018
    Posts
    186
    Rep Power
    6

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by SegaAMD View Post
    delete this post above that contains the video, enter to edit and the first box up there has the option delete


    I don't believe that windows CE interferes with textures, can interfere with performance, loadings etc yes but not textures. Let's not deny the facts, PS2 uses palletized textures as usual and has about 1MB for texture caching, Dreamcast other hand is using VQ compression, which in theory could give dreamcast up to 30MB of textures ... apart from that it has 8MB, in paper huge diference in fact things are much more complex

    We can clearly see that the PS2 has a higher texture resolution, better colors, better texture overall, I know these things don't make you cool as it refutes your belief of Dreamcast texture superiority.

    It shows that both DC compression and its larger memory were not enough to produce a better result than the simple 4MB Vram, 1MB for texture cache and 8 bit palletized.
    Now I am sure you're a numbnuts. So you're willing to take a slightly higher rez texture with 256 colors instead of a slightly lower rez texture with 65,000 colors? Wtf. The whole point is that despite being higher rez is still smaller because it contains less color information. I can understand not liking mipmaps because that's to save fillrate but the fact youd prefer lower color depth. That means worse color. Let me ask you this, would you take a 4k screen limited to 8bit color or a 1080p with 16 bit color? Then you also Dodge the fact I told you the dc gets free bilinear filtering with compressed textures on top of that. I mean weren't you the one who said the 24 bit framebuffer(ps2) because of the higher color depth makes it superior to Dreamcast 16 bit one( it does but the dc is a pretty nice 16 bit because internally it's rendered 24 bit then converted to save bandwidth)

    Wince can indeed interfere with textures because a lot of devs send textures to main ram then to the vram. Wince takes up more memory than the katana sdk.

    And like always you dodge my point, with gimped performance and memory usage half life on the dreamcast makes a comparable product to the ps2 version does it not? You dodge too much and throw out logic out the window on tech things you dont even try to comprehend., done with ya.
    Last edited by Cloofoofoo; Yesterday at 11:43 AM.

  7. #2557
    Hedgehog-in-Training Hedgehog-in-TrainingWildside Expert
    Join Date
    Feb 2019
    Posts
    249
    Rep Power
    2

    Default

    I end this little texture and color debate here, you said I'm dumb, but users who participate in the topic will judge and know which texture is the most colorful and which is the best.





  8. #2558
    Raging in the Streets Yharnamresident's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    British Columbia
    Posts
    3,686
    Rep Power
    61

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by SegaAMD View Post
    This part of your comment is wrong, there was no sacrifice for Ratchet and Clank to run over 6M PPS, PS2 can't suffer to run a game made for it, the 8 bit palletized textures, there are many myths, as if it were synonymous with low quality but the truth is that 8 bit palletizing is the way the PS2 works the textures in all its games (in all its games). The method is to store the textures in fewer colors and then apply filters to it. Works as a form of texture compression on PS2 hardware.

    I disagree that DC has better textures than PS2 in games that use the power of PS2, for example in Half Life 2001 Dreamcast operates using VQ compression to 16 Bit color, PS2 operates as always palletizing at 8 bit for a final result at 24 bit color, textures in Half life are better on PS2, this is just an example to show that there is a myth involving palletized textures.
    Not 8-bit textures, I literally mean the game uses 8-colour textures. I got the game on my game shelve, I'll show you a screenshot(and with the polycounts).
    Certified F-Zero GX fanboy

  9. #2559
    Raging in the Streets Yharnamresident's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    British Columbia
    Posts
    3,686
    Rep Power
    61

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Cloofoofoo View Post
    Here we go, if we look at trigger heart ps2 you can see textures were actually improved considerably compared to dc and radial blur was added. Look at the polygon counter, I stopped it at the same scene you captured at. Its running but a small fraction because I suspect they are probably using the co processors to clip all unseen polygons. So considering this is all that is visible the dc version has alot of unseen polygons inflating the count.

    6,676 tris per frame x 60 fps = 400k pps.
    You aren't getting accurate results, let me show you why once I come back later in the day.
    Certified F-Zero GX fanboy

  10. #2560
    Japanese Sonic CD FTW!!! Master of Shinobi Ecco's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    2,317
    Rep Power
    38

    Default

    Just to be clear though, re: Ecco: PS2 improves a couple small things like slowdown, and the map, etc.

    But the DC original version looks completely better, brighter, with beautiful crisp graphics. This is the case with the standard set-up of A/V cables for both consoles.

    This is one title that graphically is amazing and outshines the PS2 version.

    The title is completely based on the graphics, so there ya go. Swimming over image-printed seafloors looks amazing IMO, on DC. It changes everything for PS2 to make it all darker and blurrier (w/ AV cables).

    I remember my friends playing God of War 2 (IIRC) on PS2, and it might be one of the best graphics displays on the console AFAIK. Great 3D environments, details, etc. A lot of little things flying around.

    It shows the PS2's processing power etc. apparently (for everything 3D, and so much flying around) but it's not usually a beautiful game, really IIRC.

    DC Ecco is definitely a very beautiful nature sim lol.

  11. #2561
    Hedgehog-in-Training Hedgehog-in-TrainingWildside Expert
    Join Date
    Aug 2018
    Posts
    186
    Rep Power
    6

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Yharnamresident View Post
    You aren't getting accurate results, let me show you why once I come back later in the day.
    I Already did this one, IAM getting accurate results. I did it both methods zero gs and extraction. The ps2 clips the shit out of the game. The Dreamcast does not, has terrain extending far beyond the screen. Go back and check it out. Not to mention it culls the underside of ships.

    Edit: also 8 bit color is 256 colors not 8. 4 bit is 16 colors. Also this is how the ps2 renders the game( i know iam right on this). totally different from the dc version who has more unseen polys than on screen.

    Last edited by Cloofoofoo; Today at 03:58 AM.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 30 users browsing this thread. (1 members and 29 guests)

  1. Cloofoofoo

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •