Quantcast

Page 21 of 104 FirstFirst ... 111718192021222324253171 ... LastLast
Results 301 to 315 of 1557

Thread: PS2 vs Dreamcast Graphics

  1. #301
    ding-doaw Raging in the Streets tomaitheous's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Sonoran Desert
    Age
    40
    Posts
    3,981
    Rep Power
    73

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by TrekkiesUnite118 View Post
    It's not like Geometric Detail completely went out the window. It's just that shaders are used now for more minute details that would be wasteful to use polygons on. For certain aspects of detail I'd say Metroid Prime beats out the good texturing approach of Riddick. A good example is Chozo Ruins. That area still looks great and the level of geometric detail really makes the area feel like it's the ruins of an old civilization. There's large cracks in the stone, there's chunks missing from the structures, there's debris laying around, etc. They're all great details that bring that area to life, and they're details that you can't really do with texture work and bump mapping alone.

    480p at solid 60fps, I forgot how impressive that game was/is. Just watching the video, it definitely looks superior to Riddick polygon wise. I remember reading that the shader effects for the xbox gpu were more flexible, and the GC's less so - but the GC took less of a performance hit than the XBOX did for shader-ish type of effects. Just looking at Riddick, it's pretty apparent that the xbox is giving up some complexity to pull off those shiny effects.

  2. #302
    Smith's Minister of War Hero of Algol Kamahl's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Portugal
    Age
    27
    Posts
    7,915
    Rep Power
    119

    Default

    The dreamcast supposedly has bump mapping in hardware, was there any particular reason it wasn't used? I can't think of a single game that does.
    What about bloom effects? The PS2 could do them, Xbox too, GC... I dunno, can't think of any examples.
    This thread needs more... ENGINEERS

  3. #303
    Hero of Algol TrekkiesUnite118's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Age
    29
    Posts
    7,629
    Rep Power
    97

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Kamahl View Post
    The dreamcast supposedly has bump mapping in hardware, was there any particular reason it wasn't used? I can't think of a single game that does.
    Shenmue supposedly uses it for coins.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kamahl View Post
    What about bloom effects? The PS2 could do them, Xbox too, GC... I dunno, can't think of any examples.
    If the can't think of any examples was for the Gamecube, Twilight Princess has bloom effects in it. I don't know if anything on the Dreamcast does though, or if it's capable of it.

  4. #304
    Raging in the Streets Team Andromeda's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    2,669
    Rep Power
    28

    Default

    You don't need to have physically played a game to compare how the graphics stack up
    You do, becasue you're come a bit of a cropper by posting a screen shot from the PC version the game doesn't look that good onthe XBox . Playing the game on your own TV is the best way to really see how a game looks and runs and its also more helpful to play it at the time it came out to really know what impact the game had at the time.

    Metroid Prime on other hand actually has real geometry sticking out of the walls, floors, and ceilings to actually give you more detail.
    Its also so static , dull and lifeless and all very simple .

    Most of those Xbox titles that seem to be using DirectX, seem to run pretty sluggish. The games like Sega's Panzer Dragoon Orta (which don't use MS' DX8) run very well and I'd say are better looking titles overall.
    Thought all games had to direct X and pretty sure Orta is . Orta is an on-rails shooter and that will always help the game frame rate be better .

    Yeah, there just so much going on with those levels in Metroid Prime.
    I would be to differ myself .

    The dreamcast supposedly has bump mapping in hardware, was there any particular reason it wasn't used
    It doesn't . DC support a effect that works and looks similar to Bump Mapping but the Power VR2 DC chispet didn't support it
    Panzer Dragoon Zwei is
    one of the best 3D shooting games available
    Presented for your pleasure

  5. #305
    Raging in the Streets Team Andromeda's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    2,669
    Rep Power
    28

    Default

    it's pretty apparent that the xbox is giving up some complexity to pull off those shiny effects
    Yes it is but the trade off it worth it . The lighting effects made the game and was just amazing to see on a home console in 2004
    Panzer Dragoon Zwei is
    one of the best 3D shooting games available
    Presented for your pleasure

  6. #306
    End of line.. ESWAT Veteran gamevet's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Dallas, Texas
    Posts
    6,411
    Rep Power
    87

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Team Andromeda View Post
    Its also so static , dull and lifeless and all very simple .

    I would be to differ myself .
    Then you're blind. The levels have snow falling, a tarp flailing in the wind, lava flowing, exploding walls, steam and ice effects. What else is missing? The walls and surrounding areas aren't just flat with textures/mapping to make them look like they aren't flat.

    Name one Xbox game with similar game design that has better looking environments, and not just in static screen shots. And please don't say Otogi, I don't need a good laugh.

    Thought all games had to direct X and pretty sure Orta is . Orta is an on-rails shooter and that will always help the game frame rate be better.
    What 3rd party developer was going to port a PS2/Gamecube game to the Xbox using DirectX?

    Most of those titles that were shared with the PC were using DX. I could only imagine how much better Knights of the Old Republic could have been, if it wasn't tied to MS' resource hogging API.
    Last edited by gamevet; 01-26-2014 at 06:54 PM.
    A Black Falcon: no, computer games and video games are NOT the same thing. Video games are on consoles, computer games are on PC. The two kinds of games are different, and have significantly different design styles, distribution methods, and game genre selections. Computer gaming and console (video) gaming are NOT the same thing."



  7. #307
    Hero of Algol TrekkiesUnite118's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Age
    29
    Posts
    7,629
    Rep Power
    97

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Team Andromeda View Post
    You do, becasue you're come a bit of a cropper by posting a screen shot from the PC version the game doesn't look that good onthe XBox . Playing the game on your own TV is the best way to really see how a game looks and runs and its also more helpful to play it at the time it came out to really know what impact the game had at the time.
    So if anything I painted the Xbox game in a better light than it deserves. The point here was that Metroid Prime is displaying more geometric detail than Riddick, which that point still stands regardless of which version of Riddick we are looking at short of the HD remake.


    Quote Originally Posted by Team Andromeda View Post
    Its also so static , dull and lifeless and all very simple .
    So is the geometry in Riddick, your point? Just because the geometry is static and doesn't break with tons of particles doesn't mean it's simple, especially for the generation of systems we're talking about here. Metroid Prime's areas have a lot of complex geometry in them made up of far more polygons than any area in Riddick I've seen.

    Quote Originally Posted by Team Andromeda View Post
    It doesn't . DC support a effect that works and looks similar to Bump Mapping but the Power VR2 DC chispet didn't support it


    And I'm pretty sure Shenmue II uses it on coins. I know this has been discussed numerous times here as well.

  8. #308
    I DON'T LIKE POKEMON Hero of Algol j_factor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Oakland, representin'
    Posts
    8,838
    Rep Power
    109

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Kamahl View Post
    The dreamcast supposedly has bump mapping in hardware, was there any particular reason it wasn't used? I can't think of a single game that does.
    Dreamcast can do bump mapping and normal mapping. I would guess it wasn't used because it's too resource-intensive. Even on the Xbox, its use was a pretty clear trade-off.

    Bump mapping was done in Shenmue II when you closely inspect a coin. That's all I know of.

    What about bloom effects? The PS2 could do them, Xbox too, GC... I dunno, can't think of any examples.
    Bloom isn't really "special". Any system that can do dynamic lighting can do bloom. You don't see it on the DC because it wasn't popular in that era. The only reason it's in Ico for PS2 is because it suited the artistic style of the game. It wasn't until around 2004 that you started seeing bloom everywhere. I think bloom was popularized because of people using older LCD displays that had shit contrast. I think there is some bloom in Skies of Arcadia though.


    You just can't handle my jawusumness responces.

  9. #309
    WCPO Agent
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Birmingham, UK
    Age
    35
    Posts
    943
    Rep Power
    20

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by j_factor View Post
    Bloom isn't really "special". Any system that can do dynamic lighting can do bloom. You don't see it on the DC because it wasn't popular in that era. The only reason it's in Ico for PS2 is because it suited the artistic style of the game. It wasn't until around 2004 that you started seeing bloom everywhere. I think bloom was popularized because of people using older LCD displays that had shit contrast. I think there is some bloom in Skies of Arcadia though.
    Bloom was also a cheap and lame way to give a fake impression of HDR type rendering with less of a performance hit and less advanced hardware requirements.

  10. #310
    WCPO Agent
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Birmingham, UK
    Age
    35
    Posts
    943
    Rep Power
    20

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Team Andromeda View Post
    It doesn't . DC support a effect that works and looks similar to Bump Mapping but the Power VR2 DC chispet didn't support it
    One of the architects of the Dreamcast's graphics chip (Simon Fenney) disagrees: http://forum.beyond3d.com/showthread.php?t=51062

    Bump mapping is not a single technique, it's a generic term. If it looks like bump mapping, and smells like bump mapping, it is bump mapping, it doesn't matter how it is performed.

  11. #311
    Smith's Minister of War Hero of Algol Kamahl's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Portugal
    Age
    27
    Posts
    7,915
    Rep Power
    119

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by j_factor View Post
    I think there is some bloom in Skies of Arcadia though.
    You are correct, Skies of Arcadia does have bloom but it looks quite poor.
    This thread needs more... ENGINEERS

  12. #312
    Raging in the Streets Team Andromeda's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    2,669
    Rep Power
    28

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Silanda View Post
    One of the architects of the Dreamcast's graphics chip (Simon Fenney) disagrees: http://forum.beyond3d.com/showthread.php?t=51062

    Bump mapping is not a single technique, it's a generic term. If it looks like bump mapping, and smells like bump mapping, it is bump mapping, it doesn't matter how it is performed.
    I just say again the DC Power VR does not support or handle Bump Mapping in Hardware

    So if anything I painted the Xbox game in a better light than it deserves
    Yes and that's the trouble with just view videos on-line . You can also effect the contrast, Hum and various other things with most videocards and the software - It doesn't give you a real impression of what it was like to play it in your own home on a CRT TV. Saturn games really show this up where the High Res shimmer isn't displayed as good as it looks on a CRT TV, also some of the Mega CD roation effects don't look as good either (you lose the shimmer).

    The levels have snow falling, a tarp flailing in the wind, lava flowing, exploding walls, steam and ice effects. What else is missing
    Bog standard effects compared to the graphics in Stanger, Riddick , Far Cry , HL II on the XBox it comes out 2nd best imo. Xbox was just a beast of a console for the time

    So is the geometry in Riddick, your point
    You'll be surprised at the difference dynamic lighting makes to the game . The game looked really close to Doom III on the PC which given most people had to buy a new Gfx card just to run Doom 3 on the PC was amazing for a 3 year old console .

    And I'm pretty sure Shenmue II uses it on coins. I know this has been discussed numerous times here as well
    I'm just saying the facts and the fact is the DC Power VR didn't support Bump Mapping in Hardware at all.

    What 3rd party developer was going to port a PS2/Gamecube game to the Xbox using DirectX
    Pretty sure SEGA did with Monkeyball for starters Also Smilebit were made up from SEGA's old PC division and I'm sure in a interview they confirmed they were using Direct X for both Orta and GV as their R&D lines were accustomed to and use to using Direct X .
    Panzer Dragoon Zwei is
    one of the best 3D shooting games available
    Presented for your pleasure

  13. #313
    I remain nonsequitur Shining Hero sheath's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Texas
    Age
    39
    Posts
    13,313
    Rep Power
    127

    Default

    I didn't think the PVR2-DC had bump mapping either. But it is clearly listed in its specs in various places, and as somebody mentioned showed up in at least one game. I am fairly certain that any system with enough VRAM can do bump mapping, it is just a question of whether it benefits the game.



    I personally don't think even later Dreamcast games would have used Bump mapping much when modifier volumes were effectively lossless.

    Also, every mutlplatform game I have seen from Sega post-Dreamcast has the CRI-ware logo on it at the start.

  14. #314
    Smith's Minister of War Hero of Algol Kamahl's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Portugal
    Age
    27
    Posts
    7,915
    Rep Power
    119

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Team Andromeda View Post
    I'm just saying the facts and the fact is the DC Power VR didn't support Bump Mapping in Hardware at all.
    Ok so, I've done some research and it appears that:
    1. The coins in shenmue use bump mapping.
    2. There are multiple demos that use bump mapping.
    3. There's documentation about those demos that state the system can do bump mapping in hardware.
    4. Official documents state the graphics hardware can do bump mapping in hardware.

    Based on the above I've come to the conclusion that TA is an idiot.
    This thread needs more... ENGINEERS

  15. #315
    Raging in the Streets Team Andromeda's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    2,669
    Rep Power
    28

    Default

    r. But it is clearly listed in its specs in various places,
    And they're all wrong . DC Power VR didn't support it in Hardware its a fact .

    Also, every mutlplatform game I have seen from Sega post-Dreamcast has the CRI-ware logo on it at the start
    Yep that's becasue most SEGA games use CRI Middleware for either FMV or sound
    Panzer Dragoon Zwei is
    one of the best 3D shooting games available
    Presented for your pleasure

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •