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Thread: Super retro trio tear down - Taking apart the SR3.

  1. #16
    Sports Talker Kouen Hasuki's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ace View Post
    While that will extend the life of the RAM, it still doesn't hide the fact the RAM is running out of spec. In fact, at 5V, the KM68U1000s are being run beyond their absolute maximum ratings, which is 4.6V maximum. Samsung themselves warns that running the RAM past 4.6V may cause irreversible damage to the chips. If you can find TSOP versions of the plain KM681000s, those are 5V chips and should be used in place of the KM68U1000s.
    Could be worth checking the ram itself see if it is being run that high, if it is it might be possible to mod it to undervolt the ram to 4.6v?

  2. #17
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    I have tested pal games on my trio and some don't get past the title screen.
    I used the smurf game and a few other pal carts. Also, the trio I have is the blue/white white unit.
    the first, blue/white had and the same glitched audio that even affected Mario 3.
    Also, I just noticed on the snes side their is no Samsung ram but, a SEC Korea 940 what has rph00581 number code on it.
    Even, on the genesis side the video does not freak out when I play mega man the willy wars on it.

  3. #18
    Creator of the Mega Amp Raging in the Streets Ace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jorge Nuno View Post
    Do you know for sure that the memory is actually running at 5V? The interface could actually be 3.3V... No need to spread statements without confirmation.

    Just noticed the mitsubishi rams are 3.3V too. Maybe the system is full 3.3V
    The Mitsubishi RAM is not 3.3V. They're 5V chips, and I checked the datasheet to make sure.

    And yes, the RAM does run on 5V. There is no regulation anywhere on the Super NES board and the RAM receives 5V, confirmed with a multimeter test.

    Jorge, you should know me by now, I NEVER put things out like this unless I've personally tested it, and if something is purely theoretical, I will outright mention it.

    EDIT:

    Quote Originally Posted by sean View Post
    I have tested pal games on my trio and some don't get past the title screen.
    Is it me or do people not understand that these hardware clones are NOT PAL clones? They are made to output NTSC video and run NTSC games. If you want PAL compatibility as well, you have to mod your console.

    Quote Originally Posted by sean View Post
    Also, I just noticed on the snes side their is no Samsung ram but, a SEC Korea 940 what has rph00581 number code on it.
    Do you have pictures of the RAM in question? I'll go look up their datasheets.

    Quote Originally Posted by sean View Post
    Even, on the genesis side the video does not freak out when I play mega man the willy wars on it.
    There are no capacitors on the video outputs unlike the RetroGen Adapter, which uses a capacitor that's got too little capacitance and causes varying degrees of video sync problems depending on the TV used.
    Last edited by Ace; 06-20-2014 at 07:39 PM.
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    Alright alright, if you actually verified it then good.
    .. But this datasheet still says the other ram is 3.3V as well...:

    http://pdf.datasheetcatalog.com/data...on/mXqwsvu.pdf

    EDIT: wrong link before
    Last edited by Jorge Nuno; 06-20-2014 at 08:31 PM.

  5. #20
    Creator of the Mega Amp Raging in the Streets Ace's Avatar
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    ...what in hell?

    Well screw you, Mitsubishi. I was looking at the datasheet for the 5V version of that RAM without even knowing it. I'm going to check the VCC on those chips now.

    EDIT: It's a direct 5V just like the Samsung RAM. Man, these clones are going to have one hell of a short lifespan due to running these RAM chips out of their absolute maximum ratings.

    Thanks for showing me the correct datasheet, Jorge.
    Last edited by Ace; 06-20-2014 at 08:42 PM.
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  6. #21
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    Here is the picture of the snes side ram chip


    How, would I make the unit work with pal games ?
    It's the year 2014 and they could have wired the region to the switch they have for the genesis region select.

    I like the trio more than I thought I would but, the only super thing about it is the audio does not suck compared to other clones.

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    I'd say the easiest way to "solve" this is to reduce supply voltage to 4~4.5V, while keeping the analog section at 5.
    A heatsink won't do anything here, these ICs aren't overheating

    It's still not guaranteed to not fail prematurely, it would require to reduce the voltage further, but then there are other problems. Definite solution is obviously getting 5V RAMs

  8. #23
    Master of Shinobi MaxWar's Avatar
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    I checked what ram chips I have in mine and they are the same Samsung 3.3v chips Ace described. That is pretty silly of them to design the machine with an inappropriate chip.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MaxWar View Post
    I checked what ram chips I have in mine and they are the same Samsung 3.3v chips Ace described. That is pretty silly of them to design the machine with an inappropriate chip.
    what color paint your system maybe mine is the fix for that issue.

  10. #25
    Master of Shinobi MaxWar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sean View Post
    what color paint your system maybe mine is the fix for that issue.
    Mine is the black and gray, with bad nes APU

    Pretty sad with my unit so far.

    -NES has bad APU
    -SNES has out of spec memory
    -Genesis has horrible S-video jailbars and noisy audio.

  11. #26
    Raging in the Streets SEGA.GENESIS1989's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MaxWar View Post
    Mine is the black and gray, with bad nes APU

    Pretty sad with my unit so far.

    -NES has bad APU
    -SNES has out of spec memory
    -Genesis has horrible S-video jailbars and noisy audio.
    I had a feeling that it was too good to be true. I've been seeing alot of people proclaim that the system is quite good. But something told me that once someone on the forums got a hold of the system, we would discover the truth regarding the system's build quality. Even though I have no interest in the system, the one thing that is appealing about the Super Retro Trio is the ability to add scan lines. That is a pretty neat feature if you only have an HDTV.

    Anyways, I'm enjoying the fact that you are poking and proding the innards of this Frankenstein to get at the truth! Let the dissection continue!
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  12. #27
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    I was able to find a datasheet for the KM68U1000CLG-8L at http://www.digchip.com/datasheets/pa...1000CLG-8L.php
    And it seems that they run at 4 to 6v just fine.

    Also, The MITSUBISHI chips are M5M5256DVP-85VXL on my unit http://pdf1.alldatasheet.com/datashe...DVP-85VXL.html
    and they run at 3 to 4.6 V and 4.6v being the max.

    I think they have a revised model of the trio like what i have or the trio is a gamble with what chips your going to get.
    Last edited by sean; 06-20-2014 at 10:43 PM.

  13. #28
    Road Rasher Bibin's Avatar
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    Running 3.3V devices at 5V will kill them over time from over-voltage. However, from talking to TmEE and some other research it appears that using 3.3V devices, with a proper 3.3V power supply, they will draw excess current from the 5V devices, shortening their lifespans, and those are often much less replaceable (custom chips, ROMs). It might be worth checking current going through the lines and seeing which is really worse for which side.
    Last edited by Bibin; 06-21-2014 at 07:06 PM.

  14. #29
    Master of Shinobi MaxWar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sean View Post
    I was able to find a datasheet for the KM68U1000CLG-8L at http://www.digchip.com/datasheets/pa...1000CLG-8L.php
    And it seems that they run at 4 to 6v just fine.
    Where do you see that?
    I cannot find such information on this datasheet.

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by MaxWar View Post
    Where do you see that?
    I cannot find such information on this datasheet.
    KM68V1000C, KM68U1000C Family CMOS SRAM
    Revision 2.0
    November 1997
    1
    Document Title
    128K x8 bit Low Power and Low Voltage CMOS Static RAM
    Revision History
    Remark
    Preliminary
    Final
    Final
    History
    Initial draft
    Finalize
    - Increased ISB, IDR
    Commercial part = 10mA
    Industrial part = 20mA
    Revise
    - Change speed bin
    KM68V1000C Family: 70/85ns ® 70/100ns
    KM68U1000C Family: 70/100ns ® 85/100ns
    - Improved operating current: 40mA ® 35mA
    - Improved power dissipation
    PD: 0.7W ® 1.0W
    - Improved standby current
    Extended/Industrial: 20 ® 10mA
    - VIL: 0.4V ® 0.6V
    Last edited by sean; 06-20-2014 at 11:14 PM.

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