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Thread: ..what if there was no model 2..what if MANY mega drive composers sounded like..

  1. #31
    Road Rasher superandroidtron's Avatar
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    A few months ago, I noticed that some of the really neat effects Jesper Kyd used in the Red Zone soundtrack sounded horrible and distorted on my friend's model 2. Bad enough to completely ruin a few tracks. That being said, I do think that the GEMS and EA sound drivers played much bigger parts in giving Genesis audio a bad name than the model 2's rather poor audio circuitry.

  2. #32
    Death Adder's minion Dr Robotnik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dennab View Post
    "I had friends who had model 1s and model 2s. Not one of us ever noticed a difference and we all had crappy TVs. Plus add in the voices of a bunch of kids huddled around a TV, some pizza, and the latest Nirvana CD on the boom box. The Model 2 provided the same experience."

    ..while i see where your coming from..i must say well in that case a snes sounds as good as a model 2 and gameboy sounds as god as a neo geo in that type of environment..also can you guys see my signature?..if not i will make it my avatar..i guess most people have signature view turned off?
    When I was younger most of my group of friends had megadrive one's, but there was this one kid who had the model 2, and it was much worse than everyone elses. So bad that people would bring their model 1's to sleepovers at his house. From what I remember the picture was fuzzy compared to everyone else's and made all the music sound like a distorted mess. I used to think it was slightly broken back then, but I guess it could have just been a really bad model. IIRC he got it shortly after the version 2 came out.

  3. #33
    So's your old man! Raging in the Streets zetastrike's Avatar
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    I don't think the average customer would hear a difference back then, maybe people who had a model 1 previously. Most people were still using RF, in NA anyway.
    Quote Originally Posted by A Black Falcon
    Nope. Bloodlines is the problem, not me. I have no trouble with Super Castlevania IV (SNES) and Dracula X: Rondo of Blood (TCD), and have finished both games. Both of those are outstanding games, among the best platformers of the generation. In comparison Bloodlines is third or fourth tier.

    No, it's unbiased analysis. The only fanboyism is people who claim that Hyperstone Heist and Bloodlines are actually as good as their SNES counterparts.
    My Collection: http://vgcollect.com/zetastrike

  4. #34
    Master of Shinobi evilevoix's Avatar
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    Great thread

  5. #35
    Death Adder's minion Dr Robotnik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zetastrike View Post
    I don't think the average customer would hear a difference back then, maybe people who had a model 1 previously. Most people were still using RF, in NA anyway.
    I think it might have been even more noticeable. We were kids using RF leads, mostly on small portable TV's in our bedrooms and occasionally a big TV downstairs. My experience with the model 2 only extended to this one kid who had one, but the difference was night and day.

    If you compare the voice of the "Sega" at the beginning of sonic in this video, his sounded like the 3rd one only much much worse. All that would come out of the speaker would be the nasty distorted tones, to the point it sounded like a robot. I dunno the technical ins-and-outs of it, but I guess a decent speaker can get something out of the crappy signal, but a tinny little TV speaker didn't stand a chance.


  6. #36
    Hero of Algol TrekkiesUnite118's Avatar
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    I'm sorry but I find your story very hard to believe. Even through the video you provided it's hard to tell the difference right away. Going through your typical TV speakers I doubt you could tell a difference. So either your friends model 2 was severely screwed up, or you're telling stories from your rear end.

    A model 2 does sound worse, no ones debating that. But it's not the kind of difference your describing. It's like the difference between a new cassette tape and a mildly used cassette tape while you're trying to say it's like the difference between a CD and cylinder record.

    It's not big enough to give the Genesis a bad reputation for audio. That responsibility lies solely on bad compositions and games with bad sound drivers.

  7. #37
    Death Adder's minion Dr Robotnik's Avatar
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    You don't believe the systems known for having bad audio, did indeed have bad audio?

    I don't really know how to reply to that. The differences in the video I posted are pretty clear to me.

  8. #38
    Bite my shiny, metal ***! Hero of Algol retrospiel's Avatar
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    I can confirm this fact. I had a VA6 which I played to death on every TV accessible to me. I even recorded the music to cassette tapes, my PC and to VHS (game endings and intros). I was very familiar with how the system sounded. My best friend bought a VA7 and I did notice the difference. A year later my brother got his model 2 and it sounded far worse than even the VA7. Worse than in above YT video. Much worse. It seemed to me that the music was almost completely drowned out by the noise floor and the heavy distortion.

    These experiences led me to start my own little research in 2007 to find the perfect hardware to record MD music from. A few months later I joined Tiido who at that time was looking for recordings from different hardware revisions for his CCAM project.

    In 2008 I gave my brother's MD2 to Tiido to have it CCAM'd. I really regret not having recorded it for posterity.
    Last edited by retrospiel; 04-01-2015 at 07:36 AM.
    The Mega Drive was far inferior to the NES in terms of diffusion rate and sales in the Japanese market, though there were ardent Sega users. But in the US and Europe, we knew Sega could challenge Nintendo. We aimed at dominating those markets, hiring experienced staff for our overseas department in Japan, and revitalising Sega of America and the ailing Virgin group in Europe.

    Then we set about developing killer games.

    - Hayao Nakayama, Mega Drive Collected Works (p. 17)

  9. #39
    Hero of Algol TrekkiesUnite118's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr Robotnik View Post
    You don't believe the systems known for having bad audio, did indeed have bad audio?

    I don't really know how to reply to that. The differences in the video I posted are pretty clear to me.
    No, I'm saying I don't believe the story that it was so bad you could tell the difference over shitty 90's TV speakers and had felt the need to bring Model 1 systems. It reeks of hyperbole/stories from the ass.

    There is a difference between the Model 1 and Model 2. But going through RF with shitty TV Speakers, as most people did back when these systems were new, most people won't be able to tell a difference.

  10. #40
    Road Rasher genesisguy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dennab View Post
    ..hey dude i respect your opinion but the focus was the sounds themselves not the fact these are demo like videos of people just fiddling with the vintage machines..although i liked the piano 3 video i posted that sounded like an ending to a 1991 genesis rpg or something..of course genesis music like sor sounded better than those i never said otherwise..but check that other video i can definitely hear that funky type of music in a toejam and earl game..



    ..of course but as you see new composers now a days could still use these genesis-like sounding old machines to convert there tracks from wav to vgm and be put in a new game..so you agree the model 2 playedback sound is worse than model 1? (point of thread) you guys can feel free to talk about the aesthetics of the 2 models or various tech but the sound was the point of the thread along with the old machines new composers got a hold of that has the potential of those sounds to be put in new homebrews..
    Hey - you were quoting me but I never said those things... Just wanted to clear my good name.

  11. #41
    Comrade as in friend. Master of Shinobi ComradeOj's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TrekkiesUnite118 View Post
    No, I'm saying I don't believe the story that it was so bad you could tell the difference over shitty 90's TV speakers and had felt the need to bring Model 1 systems. It reeks of hyperbole/stories from the ass.

    There is a difference between the Model 1 and Model 2. But going through RF with shitty TV Speakers, as most people did back when these systems were new, most people won't be able to tell a difference.
    I think maybe it's time for me to throw in my two cents in the model 2 + crappy speakers debate.

    I had the model 2 as a kid. I'm almost 100% certain it was a VA1.8. I had it hooked up with RF to my 12 inch TV. The speakers on that think were pretty much crap and everything sounded crappy on it. Because of that, I never noticed the poor sound of my model 2. The only time I noticed that it sounded crappy was when I used the audio out option of the TV in our living room. I ran the RF into the TV, the TV then had it's audio output running to some medium sized box speakers. It sounded bad. Like really bad. I was kind of confused since it didn't sound that bad on my TV. I guess my bedroom TV's speakers masked the crappyness.

    Fast forward to now. I've tried out my mega amp modded model 2, and my stock VA7 model 1 on my trinitron's built-in speakers. The mega amp genesis obviously sounds better, but the VA7 doesn't really sound all that bad on my TV's standard speakers. Hooking up the VA7 to my nicer speaker system makes my ears want to cry blood.

    TL;DR Crappy built-in TV speakers seem to mask the crap factor of early model 2s. At least partially.
    Modded consoles:
    Master System (v7040) with s-video & direct AV out
    Model 1 with 10mhz overclock & halt switches
    Model 1 with 10mhz 68010
    Model 2 VA2.3 with unfiltered Mega Amp, & s-video
    Model 3 VA1 with compatibility fixes & s-video
    32X with s-video
    Visit my web site at www.mode5.net
    Or my collection of homebrew Genesis games, programs, and music on SEGA-16!

  12. #42
    Bite my shiny, metal ***! Hero of Algol retrospiel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TrekkiesUnite118 View Post
    No, I'm saying I don't believe the story that it was so bad you could tell the difference over shitty 90's TV speakers and had felt the need to bring Model 1 systems. It reeks of hyperbole/stories from the ass.
    Nope. It's true. It was the same here with my VA6, my friend's VA7 and especially my brother's model 2.
    Last edited by retrospiel; 04-01-2015 at 02:38 PM.
    The Mega Drive was far inferior to the NES in terms of diffusion rate and sales in the Japanese market, though there were ardent Sega users. But in the US and Europe, we knew Sega could challenge Nintendo. We aimed at dominating those markets, hiring experienced staff for our overseas department in Japan, and revitalising Sega of America and the ailing Virgin group in Europe.

    Then we set about developing killer games.

    - Hayao Nakayama, Mega Drive Collected Works (p. 17)

  13. #43
    Death Adder's minion Dr Robotnik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TrekkiesUnite118 View Post
    No, I'm saying I don't believe the story that it was so bad you could tell the difference over shitty 90's TV speakers and had felt the need to bring Model 1 systems. It reeks of hyperbole/stories from the ass.

    There is a difference between the Model 1 and Model 2. But going through RF with shitty TV Speakers, as most people did back when these systems were new, most people won't be able to tell a difference.
    What would I have to gain from lying?

    It's not like people discovered different versions had inferior audio by hooking them up to oscilloscopes. They discovered some were worse by using their ears.

  14. #44
    Raging in the Streets SEGA.GENESIS1989's Avatar
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    All this talk about sound through television speakers makes me want to test whether the sound from an original model 1, a model VA7, and a model 2 is really discernable. I still have my old CRT cabinet style television that I used to play my SEGA Genesis Model 1.
    "There's nothing to fear, except fear itself"
    http://i1054.photobucket.com/albums/s486/link2link2link/YUZOKOSHIROISAGODNEOSEEDEDITION.gif

  15. #45
    Road Rasher Pixelepsy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr Robotnik View Post
    What would I have to gain from lying?

    It's not like people discovered different versions had inferior audio by hooking them up to oscilloscopes. They discovered some were worse by using their ears.
    Yea, but that's not the issue that's being debated. No one is trying to tell you that the Model 2 didn't sound as good. It's the apparent, huge difference you were somehow able to tell over rf and through tv speakers that was so big that you decided never to use a Model 2 when they were new that is.

    Personally, I doubt it myself. They sound different, sure, but with RF and old CRT speakers it isn't the night and day difference that you're making it out to be.

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