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Thread: Beggar Prince: Official Thread

  1. #1021
    Zebbe's Avatar
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    CMA Death Adder: How come someone "anonymous" on Wikipedia keeps deleting critics about the third run of Beggar Prince and a reference that implies Tototek produced the game? Not that I wrote those statesments (I'm not anonymous on Wikipedia), but the third run was not only critized here, and it is dead obvious Tototek produced Beggar Prince when comparing it to my other items bought from them.

  2. #1022
    Shining Hero Joe Redifer's Avatar
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    I haven't seen the entry(s) that you speak of, but Wikipedia isn't really the place for praise or criticism.

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    Prince of Shatt Master of Shinobi CMA Death Adder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zebbe
    CMA Death Adder: How come someone "anonymous" on Wikipedia keeps deleting critics about the third run of Beggar Prince and a reference that implies Tototek produced the game?
    Ask "anonymous". My personal edits are marked with my username (CMA Death Adder). Wikipedia isn't my website, so I don't have any control over who does what. As it is, people modify my Wikipedia entries all the time; I don't sweat it, because it's Wikipedia (i.e. not exactly a reliable source of information).

    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Redifer
    I haven't seen the entry(s) that you speak of, but Wikipedia isn't really the place for praise or criticism.
    Wikipedia is laziness at work; a prime example that our modern-day society would rather believe the speculation at their fingertips than do a little research to get the hard facts. Oh, well. C'est la vie...
    Last edited by CMA Death Adder; 02-18-2008 at 07:34 PM.
    - Brandon Cobb
    President, Super Fighter Team

    · Check out Beggar Prince, the new RPG for Sega Genesis / Mega Drive!
    · Nightmare Busters is pretty cool, too. It's for the Super Nintendo.

    ...and cruise by Diskman Presents: filled with geektastic classic gaming goodness!

  4. #1024
    Loves Lori Bazzil! Raging in the Streets 108 Stars's Avatar
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    So, were the carts and cases made by Tototek? You of all people must know, so you can give the definite answer.

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    Zebbe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CMA Death Adder
    Ask "anonymous". My personal edits are marked with my username (CMA Death Adder). Wikipedia isn't my website, so I don't have any control over who does what. As it is, people modify my Wikipedia entries all the time; I don't sweat it, because it's Wikipedia (i.e. not exactly a reliable source of information).
    What's amazing about "anonymous" is that his edits come around the same time as yours, just a few minutes after. Maybe he borrows your computer and logs in after you have logged out at Wikipedia?

    108 Stars: Comparing my Beggar Prince cartridge backside with my Tototek cartridge, I see them as exactly similar to each other. The boxes are also exactly similar. The only difference is that Tototek is credited on one of them, and you can guess yourself which one it is.

  6. #1026
    Loves Lori Bazzil! Raging in the Streets 108 Stars's Avatar
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    I don´t understand why Tototek is not credited. If they produced it, and it obviously looks like they did, you should stand for them and be honest. They did a great job after all.
    And I added a link to this thread as a citation for the part about the critics...the third run was indeed not received positively by everyone; I know because I, although I generally love what SFT does, still cannot agree with the changes made for this third run.

    I think that accepting critics, crediting partners and not trying to hide anything is essential for a product that is aimed at such a small fanbase. People should feel that SFT is a friend they can talk to openly, not some faceless company with the bad habits of hidden secrets and the will to silence critics.

  7. #1027
    Prince of Shatt Master of Shinobi CMA Death Adder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zebbe
    What's amazing about "anonymous" is that his edits come around the same time as yours, just a few minutes after.
    To my knowledge, I haven't edited the Beggar Prince article at Wikipedia for quite some time...

    In any case, I've checked the article and I don't have any problems with it.

    Quote Originally Posted by 108 Stars
    People should feel that SFT is a friend they can talk to openly
    This thread is about Beggar Prince, not Super Fighter Team. There is a time and a place for such discussions.
    Last edited by CMA Death Adder; 02-19-2008 at 08:06 PM.
    - Brandon Cobb
    President, Super Fighter Team

    · Check out Beggar Prince, the new RPG for Sega Genesis / Mega Drive!
    · Nightmare Busters is pretty cool, too. It's for the Super Nintendo.

    ...and cruise by Diskman Presents: filled with geektastic classic gaming goodness!

  8. #1028
    Shining Hero Joe Redifer's Avatar
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    Who cares if Tototek produced the physical media? If they did, fine. If they didn't, fine. Just as long as there's someone to make it.

  9. #1029
    Loves Lori Bazzil! Raging in the Streets 108 Stars's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Redifer
    Who cares if Tototek produced the physical media? If they did, fine. If they didn't, fine. Just as long as there's someone to make it.
    It´s about that the producer should get the credits for it; after all, it is hard to find anyone who can produce these cartridges today, and the clamshell cases; CMA said so himself. They did a very good job, so it´s only fair to mention them; no reason to keep it a secret, and no reason to delete that fact from Wikipedia. It might be interesting for other potential homebrewers too.
    But since CMA said it wasn´t him, so I guess we just have to let the matter rest..no way to find out who deleted it anyway.

  10. #1030
    Prince of Shatt Master of Shinobi CMA Death Adder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 108 Stars
    It´s about that the producer should get the credits for it
    I can truly appreciate your spirit on this issue, and you're 100% right: the producer should get the credit they deserve. In fact, I've always agreed 100% on this point, which is why I personally programmed the Beggar Prince game credits into our credit display routine myself, making absolutely certain that nobody who contributed even a granule of help to the project went uncredited. Heck, I was on a roll; even the guy in Taiwan who sold me an original Chinese version of the game got his name in the credits under 'special thanks'. The credits for the product design (art, etc.) were printed on the inside front cover of the game's manual, since the game code had already been finalized by the time these details were all available. Thus if you want your questions answered A to Z about who did what for Beggar Prince, I invite you to sit down and enjoy a good play-through of the game.

    That aside - If you have a suggestion for me as to how I can better serve my customers, I value that input and am always open to discuss your thoughts and ideas. However these recent claims have just been based on pure speculation, and if you had done your homework, they wouldn't be issues at all. But as I've been saying from the start, it's always easier to speculate than it is to do a bit of research...

    Quote Originally Posted by 108 Stars
    no reason to delete that fact from Wikipedia. It might be interesting for other potential homebrewers too.
    But since CMA said it wasn´t him, so I guess we just have to let the matter rest..no way to find out who deleted it anyway.
    As the Wikipedia article is good advertising regardless of what's going on with its content, I'm not so worried about this content deletion issue. However since it seemed to be taking time and focus away from the subject at hand here at the forum, I decided to contact Wikipedia about it. Their responce was as to be expected: "Due to the high volume of requests, we can no longer... blah blah blah...". Figures. Their lone suggestion was that I register for an account and monitor the changes to the article myself. Which basically means, sit there and change the content of the article back manually every time someone edits it to remove important information. I don't have time for this...
    Last edited by CMA Death Adder; 02-20-2008 at 06:06 PM.
    - Brandon Cobb
    President, Super Fighter Team

    · Check out Beggar Prince, the new RPG for Sega Genesis / Mega Drive!
    · Nightmare Busters is pretty cool, too. It's for the Super Nintendo.

    ...and cruise by Diskman Presents: filled with geektastic classic gaming goodness!

  11. #1031
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    Sorry if you feel offended; I have played through Beggar Prince, but I guess I didn´t memorize the whole credits. I do not have the manual accessible right now, but I believe Tototek is not mentioned there.

    I hope you understand where the curiosity came from; you seemed to be the only one imagineable to have any interest in those Wiki-changes.

    You could have solved the whole discussion by making a clear statement about who manufactured the game after all.

  12. #1032
    Zebbe's Avatar
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    I know Tototek produced it, and the reason they are not credited is because Tototek sell "illegal" products. This is not speculation, I've heard it from a reliable source myself.

  13. #1033
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    I finally ordered a copy last night. The save bug + art from the original releases were a big turn off for me and when the new run was announced, I thought they'd sell out before I came up w/ the money. When I saw someone post on the Neo Geo forum that there were still some available, I figured it was time to order.

    I'm really looking forward to playing this.

  14. #1034
    Prince of Shatt Master of Shinobi CMA Death Adder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 0x15e
    I figured it was time to order.

    I'm really looking forward to playing this.
    Thank-you! I hope you enjoy the game very much.

    Quote Originally Posted by 108 Stars
    I hope you understand where the curiosity came from
    Certainly, I understand - but why not simply ask me about it, rather than make a big, public deal out of it including accusations? When something so small is turned into something so large, and I am made to be vilified in the process, I can't help but question your motives.

    Quote Originally Posted by 108 Stars
    you seemed to be the only one imagineable to have any interest in those Wiki-changes.
    Other than ensuring the grammar is correct and that the basic details are intact, I'm not so worried about the Wikipedia article. If I was so worried about controlling what was said about Beggar Prince, I would be up in arms against the magazines / websites that didn't exactly give it a shining review (and there were one or two that didn't), but I embrace their feelings because they are open and honest, thus I happily post their reviews to beggarprince.com along with the others.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zebbe
    I know Tototek produced it, and the reason they are not credited is because Tototek sell "illegal" products.
    Incorrect. A business that partners with mine can make all the "illegal" products they wish; that's their business, not mine. So long as I take no part in any "illegal" activity of theirs, my conscience is clear.

    In fact, in this line of work, the engineering and production staff are rarely credited for their contributions to a game product. At least, this is how it works in China. Thus when I told our engineer he would be credited in Beggar Prince, it came as more than a bit of a surprise to him. Business is business, thus people usually prefer some cash in their hand rather than their name in a pixelled font. However I want everyone who helps me realize my dreams to be able to feel that their contribution was worth more than just money, and thus, the need for me to give everyone their proper place in a credits listing.

    Now, since you two (and -just- the two of you, I might add - no one else here, or anywhere else for that matter, seems to give a flip about this discussion at the moment) seem to be so wrapped up this, I'll take more time away from my work to explain it to you. After all, you are both valued customers of mine, and I appreciate that.

    Tototek is one man; one man who relies on outside help (i.e. other factories) to produce things for him. If you spent two seconds talking with this one man online, you would be able to discover this information. Tototek provides its own, unique products to meet the needs of their particular customers: backup kits, console controller converters, etc. When the man behind Tototek agreed to help me with my project, it was him personally who took time away from his business to provide that service, as a contracted engineer for Super Fighter Team. Thus, no - you will not find "Tototek" listed as the producer, because this would be incorrect. You will, however, find the name "Kim Biu Wong" in the Beggar Prince credits, at the end of the game, as it was this man who provided our production help.

    Now, it can be confusing, certainly, as he is listed under "Special Thanks" - but unfortunately, several people had to be listed there instead of under a more proper designation, because the original credit scroller in the game only allowed for so many lines of text. By the time our programmers had fixed this limit, and bothered to tell me about it, the final version of the game was already off to be produced.

    Quote Originally Posted by 108 Stars
    You could have solved the whole discussion by making a clear statement about who manufactured the game after all.
    Yes, but you now see how much time was wasted in doing just that. In order for me to feel I've properly informed my customers and fans about something, a one or two word answer doesn't suffice. If I don't have the time to clatter away at the keyboard in a long, detailed answer, sometimes I find it better to say nothing at all.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zebbe
    This is not speculation, I've heard it from a reliable source myself.
    If your source of information about my company's products isn't me, then it shouldn't be considered very reliable.

    However, even if it were to be a reliable source (and I have a very good idea of who this "secret person" is), I would know exactly the conversation he is quoting from, and, as is often the case, my dialogue was taken out of context.

    Have we had our fun, now? Or would you prefer to continue to spit accusations at me? I'd ever so love to get back to providing great new games for the Genesis...
    Last edited by CMA Death Adder; 02-22-2008 at 07:42 PM.
    - Brandon Cobb
    President, Super Fighter Team

    · Check out Beggar Prince, the new RPG for Sega Genesis / Mega Drive!
    · Nightmare Busters is pretty cool, too. It's for the Super Nintendo.

    ...and cruise by Diskman Presents: filled with geektastic classic gaming goodness!

  15. #1035
    Ice Cream? Wildside Expert Barracuda's Avatar
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    I got my copy in the mail today. I've been having fun playing it for the past few hours.

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