Quantcast

Page 3 of 12 FirstFirst 1234567 ... LastLast
Results 31 to 45 of 173

Thread: Classic Gaming Quarterly takes a look back at the NA launch of the Sega Saturn.

  1. #31
    Hero of Algol TrekkiesUnite118's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Age
    31
    Posts
    8,096
    Rep Power
    121

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Team Andromeda View Post
    Long before that time the likes of EDGE was reporting of SONY new multi media machine/console. In fact SONY held a press conf in December 1993 to tell the world of the PS-X
    Yet Sega of America was aware of the Saturn having 2 SH-2s less than a month later, and not only that it appeared to be something that had been set in stone for a while for them to see it as such a good idea and not something rushed out the door without thought.

    The afterthought in the Saturn's design seems to be more aimed at VDP1's quirkiness and the fragmented memory.

  2. #32
    Grandmaster's Reckoning ESWAT Veteran Knuckle Duster's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    5,038
    Rep Power
    78

    Default

    Oh boy, this bullshit tangent again.


  3. #33
    Old School Sega 4 Ever! Master of Shinobi Lan Di's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Southern California
    Posts
    2,375
    Rep Power
    72

    Default

    Wow, all this Kalinske hate. Tom Kalinske was no saint by any stretch of the imagination, but it was through his leadership and ingenuity that made Sega a mainstream household name outside of the EU and Brazil and Japan. The EU had Virgin, and Brazil had Tech Toy. Kalinske filled the void for the rest if the world. SOA's branding and marketing style transcended all demographics and other regions adopted the SOA style of marketing. The Saturn's failure is not Kalinke's, that failure was both Hayayo Nakayama's and Bernie Stolar's fault. Remember the Working Designs fiasco? The early launch mandated by Nakayama san? The mis-management of Capcom and SNK fighters? No RAM cart or video card for the rest of the world. Think about it, if Sega, SNK and Capcom would have made an exclusive deal the Saturn would have had a chance.

  4. #34
    Banned by Administrators
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    spaghetti
    Age
    39
    Posts
    5,994
    Rep Power
    0

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Knuckle Duster View Post
    Oh boy, this bullshit tangent again.

    What?! Things are just getting good.


  5. #35

    Default

    Makes me sad to see one of my videos causing this much fighting.

    retrospiel, I'm sorry you feel that this episode was poorly researched. I assure you that it was very well researched. The "historical perspective" section, or whatever you want to call it, was framed the way that it was because it told a compelling story, but I do not believe that I said anything that was untrue, nor do I think that I blatantly omitted any key information. As someone else already pointed out in this thread, I am an American, talking about the launches of these consoles from an American perspective.

    If someone doesn't like the subjective things that I say (like Panzer Dragoon having too much plot for an arcade game) then that's fine; my style isn't going to be for everyone. That isn't me trying to be funny at all, it's me giving my opinion. At the end of the day, Panzer Dragoon is an arcade rail shooter and I *personally* want to hear about plot in that game just as much as I would in Space Harrier. As far as the rest of your post, I was playing the game at my desk because I need to run the Saturn through a Framemeister to capture the footage, and that is the only TV in my office that accepts HDMI, and a desktop is the most comfortable place to set up both the Mission Stick (Panzer Dragoon) and the Arcade Racer (Daytona USA). Would you have preferred that I was sitting in my lounge chair with those controllers sitting on my lap? And speaking of the Arcade Racer, while it does wonders for some of Sega's later arcade racers on the Saturn, it is shit for Daytona USA.

  6. #36
    End of line.. Hero of Algol gamevet's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Dallas, Texas
    Posts
    8,223
    Rep Power
    117

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Team Andromeda View Post
    Sigh... Sony America could talk all it wants SONY Japan does all the Hardware R&D inthe 90's the only corp it ever did a deal with was NCL . Now if it was SONY Japan and SEGA America talking that would be really different.

    It was Sony of Japan and Sega of America talking, through Sony of America.

    http://www.usgamer.net/articles/sega...p-on-a-console

    Quote Originally Posted by usgamer
    Sony came to us after they had been rebuffed by Nintendo," Kalinske recalled. “They had wanted Nintendo to use some technology that they had, and Nintendo instead chose to work with Philips. That really annoyed Sony. Olaf Olafsson [Sony Electronic Publishing President] and Micky Schulhof [President of Sony America] came to my office and said, 'Tom, we really don’t like Nintendo. You don’t like Nintendo. We have this little studio down in Santa Monica [Imagesoft] working on video games, we don’t know what to do with it, we’d like Sega’s help in training our guys. And we think the optical disc will be the best format.


    Kalinske agreed with Sony's executives and proposed a partnership to finance a small developer called Digital Pictures, who eventually created Night Trap, Sewer Shark, and Supreme Warrior for Sega-CD.


    Sega of America and Sony were both convinced that the next platform had to use optical discs. We had been working on this CD-ROM attachment to the Genesis, which we knew really wasn’t adequate, but it taught us how to make games on this format," said Kalinske. "We had the Sony guys and our engineers in the United States come up with specs for what this next optical-based hardware system would be. And with these specs, Olafsson, Schulhof and I went to Japan, and we met with Sony’s Ken Kutaragi. He said it was a great idea, and as we all lose money on hardware, let's jointly market a single system – the Sega/Sony hardware system – and whatever loss we make, we split that loss.

    Kalinske took his proposal to Sega's Board of Directors, who promptly vetoed the idea.

    Next, we went to [Sega president] Nakayama and the Board at Sega, and they basically turned me down. They said, 'that’s a stupid idea, Sony doesn’t know how to make hardware. They don’t know how to make software either. Why would we want to do this?' That is what caused the division between Sega and Sony and caused Sony to become our competitor and launch its own hardware platform." 

    That was only the beginning of the schism between Kalinske and his superiors at Sega of Japan. Sony poached Sega senior executives, including Kalinske's second-in-command Steve Race, to develop the Sony PlayStation. Sega moved forward on its own with the Saturn and Kalinske didn't believe the system would succeed, but Sega of Japan was looking to spoiler Sony's efforts with the console's launch.
    Olaf was in charge of Sony's CD projects long before the NCL deal.

    http://www.bloomberg.com/bw/stories/...k-of-all-media


    Quote Originally Posted by bloomberg
    Olafsson joined Sony in 1984 as a researcher for a San Jose (Calif.) unit that sells CD-ROM drives and other computer peripherals, mainly to other manufacturers for use in their own machines. Since 1989, he has also worked as a vice-president for special projects for Sony USA, reporting to Schulhof in New York. There, he helped plan the new company while evaluating new technologies and investment opportunities.

    With Electronic Publishing, he'll be competing with IBM, Time Warner Inc., and several other big companies that have recently entered the market for multimedia home entertainment. Olafsson has spent the past few weeks sounding out Sony artists about licensing their images and sounds for use in the new technology. A good number, both with Sony Music and Columbia Pictures, have shown "strong interest" in the new media, he says.
    Last edited by gamevet; 12-27-2015 at 09:02 PM.
    A Black Falcon: no, computer games and video games are NOT the same thing. Video games are on consoles, computer games are on PC. The two kinds of games are different, and have significantly different design styles, distribution methods, and game genre selections. Computer gaming and console (video) gaming are NOT the same thing."



  7. #37
    Banned by Administrators
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    spaghetti
    Age
    39
    Posts
    5,994
    Rep Power
    0

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jibbajaba View Post
    If someone doesn't like the subjective things that I say (like Panzer Dragoon having too much plot for an arcade game) then that's fine; my style isn't going to be for everyone. That isn't me trying to be funny at all, it's me giving my opinion. At the end of the day, Panzer Dragoon is an arcade rail shooter and I *personally* want to hear about plot in that game just as much as I would in Space Harrier. As far as the rest of your post, I was playing the game at my desk because I need to run the Saturn through a Framemeister to capture the footage, and that is the only TV in my office that accepts HDMI, and a desktop is the most comfortable place to set up both the Mission Stick (Panzer Dragoon) and the Arcade Racer (Daytona USA). Would you have preferred that I was sitting in my lounge chair with those controllers sitting on my lap? And speaking of the Arcade Racer, while it does wonders for some of Sega's later arcade racers on the Saturn, it is shit for Daytona USA.


    ^ Having lore in the simplest games can still be very important. Especially to a kid back in the day that couldn't buy many games and only replayed a few over and over. And where imagination of a well thought out world and lore greatly add to enjoyment of anything, even screwing with a hot chick "Here, babe, slap this Tifa costume on while I break out ma big sword." See? ... "Cloud why's your sword so small." "Oh, I see, it not powered up yet. ... ahem. Wise from your gwave!"

    Even on the dedicated Gradius STG forums (GameStone) for a simple Arcade style shooter series, folks are very interested in the lore and story of the games and how they are connected. Because yeah, playing these games over and over should make you wonder about that. Some of us don't just play a game for a few minutes then move on to the next review.



    Thanks for answering my other questions, but no way can the Steering Wheel be shit for Daytona because it make it feel more like the arcade and that you're playing a racer.

    And again, no way Ridge Racer comes close to Daytona USA. No contest. Opinion or not. Ridge Racer 1 was a stop gag maybe worthy of a rental. Not an entire summer of fun like I had with Daytona USA with Steering Wheel during early launch making me feel like I had the Arcade of my fave racer at home.



    Yes, this video says it all.
    Last edited by Thief; 12-27-2015 at 09:40 PM.

  8. #38

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Thief View Post
    ^ Having lore in the simplest games can still be very important. Especially to a kid back in the day that couldn't buy many games and only replayed a few over and over. And where imagination of a well thought out world and lore greatly add to enjoyment of anything, even screwing with a hot chick "Here, babe, slap this Tifa costume on while I break out ma big sword." See? ... "Cloud why's your sword so small." "Oh, I see, it not powered up yet. ... ahem. Wise from your gwave!"

    Even on the dedicated Gradius STG forums (GameStone) for a simple Arcade style shooter series, folks are very interested in the lore and story of the games and how they are connected. Because yeah, playing these games over and over should make you wonder about that. Some of us don't just play a game for a few minutes then move on to the next review.
    It just comes down to personal taste. I have never been one who was interested in the story in most games. To me, I play an RPG or adventure game if I want to get immersed in a story. I play a game like Panzer Dragoon because I want arcade action. As to your last sentence, I'm sorry if you feel as though that's what I'm doing. I make these videos because I really love games, particularly the games of my youth and young adulthood. I am not some YouTuber who just cranks out a review and then moves on to the next thing. I struggle to upload even once per month because I spend ridiculous amounts of time on each video.

    Thanks for answering my other questions, but no way can the Steering Wheel be shit for Daytona because it make it feel more like the arcade and that you're playing a racer.
    The Arcade Racer just doesn't feel right to me when playing Daytona USA (again, my subjective opinion). I have spent tons of time playing the arcade version (my buddy owns two of them), and in my opinion the Arcade Racer wheel does not make the Saturn port feel more like the arcade port. As I said in my last post, that wheel can be a godsend for some of the Saturn's later arcade racers, but for Daytona I'll take the standard controller.

    And again, no way Ridge Racer comes close to Daytona USA. No contest. Opinion or not. Ridge Racer 1 was a stop gag maybe worthy of a rental. Not an entire summer of fun like I had with Daytona USA with Steering Wheel during early launch making me feel like I had the Arcade of my fave racer at home.
    When talking about the launch of the Saturn, the obvious comparison to be made regarding Daytona USA is to Ridge Racer, as they were both home ports of popular arcade racers. I happen to think that they are both excellent games. Much like yourself, I would take Daytona USA over Ridge Racer any day of the week, but I am not going to say something like "Ridge Racer doesn't even come close to Daytona USA" because in doing so I would be implying that Ridge Racer is not a good game, which I don't believe to be the case.



    Yes, this video says it all.
    I think that video says more about Kaz Hirai's total lack of charisma, and less about how people feel about Ridge Racer.

  9. #39
    Banned by Administrators
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    spaghetti
    Age
    39
    Posts
    5,994
    Rep Power
    0

    Default

    You don't even play Daytona with analog controls...

    And lore is not just story. It's the shape of the world and it's creatures, buildings and vehicles. And Panzer word is very rich. Why it ended up as an RPG for the third game.

    And I still believe Ridge Racer on PS1 aged much worse. The only Ridge Racer games I cared for back in the day were the last two released for PS1.

    And if you spend that much time playing, you really didn't say much about these games... but then again I'm not sure what audience you're targeting. Not me. That's all I know. But don't worry. I don't watch much YouTube (I still don't have a YT account). And don't take offense either. Not worth it.

  10. #40

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Thief View Post
    And if you spend that much time playing, you really didn't say much about these games... but then again I'm not sure what audience you're targeting. Not me. That's all I know. But don't worry. I don't watch much YouTube (I still don't have a YT account). And don't take offense either. Not worth it.
    I try to keep the coverage of each game to around 3 minutes or less. They are not meant to be exhaustive reviews. I am trying to touch on each game as part of telling the story of the launch of the system.

    The audience I am targeting is myself. I make the kind of videos that I enjoy watching. Obviously a lot of other people also enjoy them, which makes me happy. It's a bummer that you're not one of them, but different strokes for different folks. I only responded to your initial post because you seemed to have a pretty strong negative reaction to the show and I thought I would respond (and only even found this thread because retrospiel left a comment on the vid itself). I absolutely welcome constructive criticism because it is my goal to make the best quality videos that I can (and that includes their factual accuracy), but with an increase in the popularity of my channel comes an unfortunate increase of criticism that isn't particularly "constructive".

  11. #41
    Bite my shiny, metal ***! Hero of Algol retrospiel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Cologne, FRG
    Posts
    7,816
    Rep Power
    91

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jibbajaba View Post
    retrospiel, I'm sorry you feel that this episode was poorly researched. I assure you that it was very well researched.
    It's nice to see you posting here. I LOVED your Genny, PCE/TG-16, PSX launch videos - they were truly brilliant. The more I am dissapointed with this one.

    What ruins this new video is the introduction. And perhaps I used the wrong word in this context: The problem is less the research but more the amount of misinformation going around these days that makes an honest attempt at retelling what actually happened impossible. There must be hundreds of interviews with Kalinske by now and he not only plays into the role interviewers have put him in over the past ten years but even actively tries to tilt their already skewed perspective of things further towards his persona.
    The Mega Drive was far inferior to the NES in terms of diffusion rate and sales in the Japanese market, though there were ardent Sega users. But in the US and Europe, we knew Sega could challenge Nintendo. We aimed at dominating those markets, hiring experienced staff for our overseas department in Japan, and revitalising Sega of America and the ailing Virgin group in Europe.

    Then we set about developing killer games.

    - Hayao Nakayama, Mega Drive Collected Works (p. 17)

  12. #42

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by retrospiel View Post
    It's nice to see you posting here. I LOVED your Genny, PCE/TG-16, PSX launch videos - they were truly brilliant. The more I am dissapointed with this one.

    What ruins this new video is the introduction. And perhaps I used the wrong word in this context: The problem is less the research but more the amount of misinformation going around these days that makes an honest attempt at retelling what actually happened impossible. There must be hundreds of interviews with Kalinske by now and he not only plays into the role interviewers have put him in over the past ten years but even actively tries to tilt their already skewed perspective of things further towards his persona.
    Firstly, thank you for your positive comments about my other launch vids. Regarding this video, I would say first and foremost that there is no way to tell this story that isn't going to elicit a negative response from some folks. It is a controversial subject and there is no way to frame it without painting someone as the bad guy. I fully agree that there is a ton of misinformation on the net not just about this particular topic, but about gaming history in general. Unfortunately, information was not preserved as it was not seen as important. That being said, I do not believe that any of the information contained in my video is incorrect. Yes, the video is sympathetic to Kalinske but that is due to my perspective as both an an American gamer and as someone who had a Genesis in its heyday.

    Edit: At the end of the day, I am doing the best job that I can with every video. Each one is a learning experience, and this one was never going to be easy due to the sensitive nature of the subject matter. It is disappointing for me that anyone would watch one of my videos and come away thinking that I was doing a less-than-thorough job with either the historical research or with the time that I spend with each game. But at the end of the day these are my videos and are colored by my opinions.

  13. #43
    Banned by Administrators
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    spaghetti
    Age
    39
    Posts
    5,994
    Rep Power
    0

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jibbajaba View Post
    ...but with an increase in the popularity of my channel comes an unfortunate increase of criticism that isn't particularly "constructive".
    Yeah, I sometimes read some crazy comments on YouTube too. You just have to have a sense of humour about it there, and you'll be fine. ... Well, it's what I do. I laugh everything off... if not, I go party to get in the right mood, then laugh everything off.

    But cheers and good luck. Because making videos for myself is exactly what I'd do too... then laugh all the critics, constructive or not, off.

  14. #44
    End of line.. Hero of Algol gamevet's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Dallas, Texas
    Posts
    8,223
    Rep Power
    117

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jibbajaba View Post
    Firstly, thank you for your positive comments about my other launch vids. Regarding this video, I would say first and foremost that there is no way to tell this story that isn't going to elicit a negative response from some folks. It is a controversial subject and there is no way to frame it without painting someone as the bad guy. I fully agree that there is a ton of misinformation on the net not just about this particular topic, but about gaming history in general. Unfortunately, information was not preserved as it was not seen as important. That being said, I do not believe that any of the information contained in my video is incorrect. Yes, the video is sympathetic to Kalinske but that is due to my perspective as both an an American gamer and as someone who had a Genesis in its heyday.

    Edit: At the end of the day, I am doing the best job that I can with every video. Each one is a learning experience, and this one was never going to be easy due to the sensitive nature of the subject matter. It is disappointing for me that anyone would watch one of my videos and come away thinking that I was doing a less-than-thorough job with either the historical research or with the time that I spend with each game. But at the end of the day these are my videos and are colored by my opinions.
    I thought that the video was very well done. You took the time to show segments of magazine articles from the time, with each subject that you had brought up. People always bring up how Sony of Japan was pissed off about how Nintendo had brushed Sony aside during their agreement for the Nintendo CD, but they never consider that there was a North American side of Sony that was also involved, and that they had moved towards working with Sega to establish an idea about how to use CD technology for gaming.
    A Black Falcon: no, computer games and video games are NOT the same thing. Video games are on consoles, computer games are on PC. The two kinds of games are different, and have significantly different design styles, distribution methods, and game genre selections. Computer gaming and console (video) gaming are NOT the same thing."



  15. #45
    Raging in the Streets Team Andromeda's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Wales, UK
    Posts
    4,989
    Rep Power
    54

    Default

    Yet Sega of America was aware of the Saturn having 2 SH-2s less than a month late
    Well looking over that was after SEGA had found out about the PS-X. I'm not so sure for a few reasons namely most SEGA insiders all said the 2nd CPU was a afterthought and that they would be no way SEGA would know hit it's 1994 date as it was playing chaos with SEGA development systems and game development and also I rememeber SEGA West even claming Mars was more powerful than the Saturn at it's early stage . I would put to you that untill SEGA found out about the PS-X, The Saturn was only ever going to have 1 main SH-2 CPU.

    Olaf was in charge of Sony's CD projects long before the NCL deal
    Try no . I'm sure even to this very SONY America has no R&D what so ever and in the early 90's . SONY computer/console divsion was tiny and based in SONY Japan Music HQ and not able to work on more than one major product at a time . It always been SONY Japan that does the R&D and SONY Japan was locked into a deal to produced the PS for NCL. SEGA never used SONY for the Mega CD audio or CD Drive. After NCL made SONY look a laughing stock , SONY decided it would go alone and I have interview with both Phil Harrison and Ken that back that up

    It was Sony of Japan and Sega of America talking, through Sony of America
    Please no more lies and Spin from Tom . Becasue that man just talks bullshit and I do get board of his lies and spin . You show any interview and I mean any interview from any member of SONY Japan that paints Tom's picture out . Never mind that any interview with Sega, Bayless or Joe Miller (SEGA America key tech guys) never ever talk of them being offered SONY Tech; If that was the case they would have been no need to go for the SH-2 when the call came from Japan to make what would become the 32X, they could have just gone for SONY PS and also tell SEGA Japan don't worry about the 3DO or Jaguar , worry more about SONY tech .
    Panzer Dragoon Zwei is
    one of the best 3D shooting games available
    Presented for your pleasure

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •