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Thread: What if the Saturn was never released and it was up to the 32X?

  1. #31
    ESWAT Veteran Team Andromeda's Avatar
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    But If sega of america had its way in 93...we would be probably playing the sega playstation 4 right now. But sega of japan didnt want it
    Can we stop this utter rubbish once and for all , because its not true . SOA/SOJ were never ever offered the PS chipset at all , lets get that out of the way. In Fact it would be Nintendo that would be enjoying the PS4 if they hadn't done the dirty on SONY, it was Nintendo that turned down the SONY chipset . Looking over that, even if SEGA were offered the SONY PS chipset, SOA no doubt would have said it's too costly and we need a add-on for the Mega Drive instead and would have cocked up the SONY deal up with a 32x PS for the MD :P .

    Looking over that, after the interviews with both Scott and Joe: who both said SEGA America and Japan R&D Teams had a great working relationship, one would have thought that myth would have been put to bed too. And its not like the PR teams don't have disagreements and all that. Sony America hated the PS name wanted to change it (that was overruled) SONY America and Japan had disagreements with the pricing of the PS and that led to Olaf leaving SONY. It happens, hell some inside SEGA America hated SONIC though it would never sell or work in the west

    32X was a nice idea, but after it came clear SONY was coming into the market, the Saturn was going to hit its 94 date that the 3DO and Jaguar were no threat to the MD , was the time to cancel the project and focus on the Saturn. I bet SEGA Japan was making it's own answer to the Super Grafx and no doubt that was the GigaDrive long before the 32X too
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    Bite my shiny, metal ***! Hero of Algol retrospiel's Avatar
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    Neither Nintendo nor Sega were offered the PlayStation chipset. What they were offered were to be software licensees - i.e. Namco's place. According to David Sheff's book Game Over that is exactly the reason why Nintendo turned them down.
    The Mega Drive was far inferior to the NES in terms of diffusion rate and sales in the Japanese market, though there were ardent Sega users. But in the US and Europe, we knew Sega could challenge Nintendo. We aimed at dominating those markets, hiring experienced staff for our overseas department in Japan, and revitalising Sega of America and the ailing Virgin group in Europe.

    Then we set about developing killer games.

    - Hayao Nakayama, Mega Drive Collected Works (p. 17)

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    Framemeister Expert Hedgehog-in-TrainingOutrunner Tower of Power's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gogogadget View Post
    Yeah those games are excellent, but they aren't 3D.

    Virtua Fighter is practically now a footnote in gaming history, and 1 and 2's reputation is apparently a horribly dated hilarious looking game. But they both play smooth as fuck and look very appealing for the time. They deserve a better reputation.
    I remember, at the time in the arcades, Virtua Fighter was pretty much ignored. I don't think people really knew what they were looking at. Seeing stuff rendered in 3D at that point wasn't anything new, but seeing a fighting game in 3D was new and strange. No one was sure if it was even any good. The graphics were pretty blocky. The hype, marketing, attitude, flashiness, and violence of games like Mortal Kombat and Killer Instinct led to them having long lines, while Virtua Fighter sat alone in the corner.

    Although I think the series was orders of magnitude more popular in Japan, where it sold pretty much 1:1 with the Saturn at launch.

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    ESWAT Veteran Team Andromeda's Avatar
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    Neither Nintendo nor Sega were offered the PlayStation chipset. What they were offered were to be software licensees
    That's quite true tbf
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  5. #35
    Nonconformist Hedgehog-in-TrainingWCPO Agent EyeDeeNo76's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tower of Power View Post
    I remember, at the time in the arcades, Virtua Fighter was pretty much ignored. I don't think people really knew what they were looking at. Seeing stuff rendered in 3D at that point wasn't anything new, but seeing a fighting game in 3D was new and strange. No one was sure if it was even any good. The graphics were pretty blocky. The hype, marketing, attitude, flashiness, and violence of games like Mortal Kombat and Killer Instinct led to them having long lines, while Virtua Fighter sat alone in the corner.

    Although I think the series was orders of magnitude more popular in Japan, where it sold pretty much 1:1 with the Saturn at launch.
    I can testify to this account as well. I myself was already familiar with 3D polygon because of Hard Drivin' and liked the 3D driving environments but in a fighting game it felt as if it had no place. To this day I still prefer the 2D playing field of a fighting game than a 3D one.

  6. #36
    Bring on the noise! WCPO Agent Bones Justice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Team Andromeda View Post
    Can we stop this utter rubbish once and for all , because its not true . SOA/SOJ were never ever offered the PS chipset at all , lets get that out of the way.
    This is what [former Sega of America CEO] Tom Kalinske said about the subject:

    "One of the key reasons why I left Sega is when we had the opportunity to work with Sony, when [Sony Interactive CEO] Olaf Olafsson, [Sony Corporation of America president and CEO] Mickey Schulhof and I had agreed we were going to do one platform, share the development cost of it, share the probable loss for a couple years on it, but each benefit from the software we could bring to that platform. Of course, in those days, we were much better at software than they were, so I saw this as a huge win. We went to Sony and they agreed, 'Great idea.' Whether we called it Sega-Sony or Sony-Sega, who cared? We go to Sega and the board turned it down..."


    [http://www.gamesindustry.biz/article...he-next-atari]
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bones Justice View Post
    This is what [former Sega of America CEO] Tom Kalinske said about the subject:

    "One of the key reasons why I left Sega is when we had the opportunity to work with Sony, when [Sony Interactive CEO] Olaf Olafsson, [Sony Corporation of America president and CEO] Mickey Schulhof and I had agreed we were going to do one platform, share the development cost of it, share the probable loss for a couple years on it, but each benefit from the software we could bring to that platform. Of course, in those days, we were much better at software than they were, so I saw this as a huge win. We went to Sony and they agreed, 'Great idea.' Whether we called it Sega-Sony or Sony-Sega, who cared? We go to Sega and the board turned it down..."


    [http://www.gamesindustry.biz/article...he-next-atari]
    Tom lies and spin . LET'S all remember that Tom didn't leave Sega until mid 1997 .
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  8. #38
    Blast processor Melf's Avatar
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    He left in April of 1996.

  9. #39
    ESWAT Veteran Team Andromeda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Melf View Post
    He left in April of 1996.
    I meant 1996 and Tom stayed on at SEGA until September 30th 1996 . Where he left at the same time has Nakayama-san (most prob the reason why Tom left in a rush) and David Rosen stood down . For Tom to have any real credibility (if you believe the bull over the Saturn forced on him in terms of hardware and rushed may date, turning down SONY) . Was back in 1995 when the Saturn hardware and street date was forced on him, not over a year latter when you completely called it wrong and totally cocked up the lauch of both the 32X and Saturn.

    At least Olaf left SONY not long after the USA PS launch as he had enough of SONY Japan trying to force SONY America to increase the price of PS
    Panzer Dragoon Zwei is
    one of the best 3D shooting games available
    Presented for your pleasure

  10. #40
    Sports Talker NRGS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Team Andromeda View Post
    Tom lies and spin . LET'S all remember that Tom didn't leave Sega until mid 1997 .

    Just curious if you had reference material on proving that Tom lies? Im just about finished with The Console Wars Book, i think alot of what is said in the book comes from tom. According to the book after things went south with sony getting shafted by Nintendo, olaf olafsson and tom kalinske pitched to build a new console to sega of japan and they said no.

    Just curious, im a fan of video game history. Obiviously we all are.

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by NRGS View Post
    Just curious if you had reference material on proving that Tom lies? Im just about finished with The Console Wars Book, i think alot of what is said in the book comes from tom. According to the book after things went south with sony getting shafted by Nintendo, olaf olafsson and tom kalinske pitched to build a new console to sega of japan and they said no.

    Just curious, im a fan of video game history. Obiviously we all are.
    Hi. Well, there are some cases where Kalinske is outright lying (e.g. designing Sonic's red shoes), but most of it is just "suspect", as in he's putting a spin on history to make himself out the good guy. Michael Katz has a very negative attitude towards Kalinske (granted, Kalinske did fire him, but still). This is from the Sega-16 interview with Katz where he's talking about Kalinske (without naming him):

    They ought to study their history a little better, get a life, and try to take credit for what they really did or didnt do.
    Kalinske certainly seems to be after the credit for a lot of stuff.

    Joe Miller offers a much more rational and unbiased account of the end of the 16-bit era and the relationship of Sega of America and Sega of Japan. Whereas Kalinske claims Sega of Japan shot down the Silicon Graphics deal out of jealousy/spite, Miller says:

    they were concerned that the process required for fabricating that particular chipset was new. There were concerns about yield; there were some voiced concerns about how many of these could be made quickly. Part of what makes a consumer products company successful is that you understand the manufacturing process well enough to know that you can make enough product to meet demand, and there was concern on that particular opportunity that that chip was going to be difficult to manufacture at the quantities needed.
    Miller discusses the specifics that Kalinske never does and there is no sense that Sega of Japan was some kind of evil bogey man, just that they were making rational business decisions. Miller does not agree that there was any real conflict between the two divisions:

    Id say that the rhetoric around the deteriorating relationship is probably overblown a little bit, based on what Ive read. Nakayama-san and SOJ knew they had a strong, proven management team in place at SOA, and while everyone was concerned about growing the business, neither side lost confidence in the other.
    Kalinske says that Sega of Japan made him launch the Saturn early, but Miller says:

    I know Tom Kalinske probably shared with you his impression of the early Saturn launch, but that was largely his job. He determined the best possible timing and marketing strategies, building a strong campaign around launching any platform not just price points but when, and how and so forth.
    That doesn't mean there isn't truth to what Kalinske says (and Miller doesn't know about it), but there certainly isn't a lot of support for what Kalinske says and a lot of it does read like self-promotion.

    On the topic of the book Console Wars: there are a lot of other problems in it that Melf and others have pointed out concerning the way things are portrayed (not very accurately!). For example, I think Kalinkse is credited with the EA deal but that was actually Katz.

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    ESWAT Veteran Team Andromeda's Avatar
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    Just curious if you had reference material on proving that Tom lies? Im just about finished with The Console Wars Book,
    One member already posted a interview with Tom saying he was asking to come up with a plan to counter the PS and the early date was his idea . I've posted various interviews with TOM in 1994 and 1995, not just saying Tom donesn't know SONY plans, but also Tom saying SEGA had better tech and software, the 32X was beat not just the Saturn, but also PS and N64 for sales and be the only mass market 32Bit machine and also his famvous 2 page spread defending the Saturn and saying how it was more powerful than the PS.

    Now of course Tom paints a difference picture . Looking over that, there's a not a single interview from anyone at SONY Japan or even SONY America it would seem to back up Tom's rubbish claims, that's the key
    Panzer Dragoon Zwei is
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    Presented for your pleasure

  13. #43
    ESWAT Veteran Team Andromeda's Avatar
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    Hi. Well, there are some cases where Kalinske is outright lying (e.g. designing Sonic's red shoes)
    Very true and is should be noted that most inside SEGA America hated SONIC desgin and some even thought Kid Chameleon was the game that should sell the Mega Drive, not Sonic .

    Joe Miller offers a much more rational and unbiased account of the end of the 16-bit era and the relationship of Sega of America and Sega of Japan
    So does Scott Bayless and Mart Franz . So let that be an end to another myth that SEGA America and Japan didn't get on .



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    Presented for your pleasure

  14. #44
    Sports Talker NRGS's Avatar
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    Thanks Crom and Team Andromeda. Thats interesting, kinda sucks that the book has conflicting info. Can't say i would recommend reading it.

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    Framemeister Expert Hedgehog-in-TrainingOutrunner Tower of Power's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NRGS View Post
    Thanks Crom and Team Andromeda. Thats interesting, kinda sucks that the book has conflicting info. Can't say i would recommend reading it.
    When it comes to history, you should read all first hand accounts possible (the closer to the actual event, the better). Don't take any one thing as gospel (especially anything said on the Internet). The truth usually lies somewhere in the middle.

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