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Thread: Why do people have issues with others not being fans of the SNES?

  1. #91
    Framemeister Expert Hedgehog-in-TrainingOutrunner Tower of Power's Avatar
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    To get back to the original question: I think that the SNES is generally accepted by people who aren't super informed as the default "best" console of the 16-bit generation (whether or not this is actually true). Whenever you try to question what's accepted as the default way of thinking, you're going to run into a lot of resistance.

    WHY the SNES is generally accepted as being the "best" is pretty well covered in this thread (seems to be a combination of factors, even if there's plenty of people who don't think it's the best).

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    End of line.. Hero of Algol gamevet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sheath View Post
    Your Youtube examples sound like enhanced emulation. I have heard plenty of off tune SNES samples to know that GeckoYamori is on to something. MK2 is a great example.

    Hi all, I'm pretty sure I shouldn't have come back.
    Point me in the direction of this enhanced emulation, because I've never heard of any such thing.


    I'd like to hear some of your examples.

    It's a pick your poison with this track. The Genesis version has better bass and a much snappier snare drum sound, but the main instrument sounds like it's being pushed through a thin aluminum pipe; it has a horrible twang to it. The SNES version has a slightly subdued bass and the snare drum sort of cuts off short, but the main instrument sounds better.

    Last edited by gamevet; 09-10-2016 at 12:29 AM.
    A Black Falcon: no, computer games and video games are NOT the same thing. Video games are on consoles, computer games are on PC. The two kinds of games are different, and have significantly different design styles, distribution methods, and game genre selections. Computer gaming and console (video) gaming are NOT the same thing."



  3. #93
    Death Bringer Raging in the Streets Black_Tiger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gamevet View Post
    Thank you!

    I just don't get how someone can hear a beautiful music composition on the SNES and then trash it because it isn't as in your face loud as the vibrating sounds that the Genesis creates. A perfect example is Street Fighter 2, with its improved sound track and good sounding voice samples. I keep hearing these raving Genesis fans trying to say that the Genesis version is better, yet the Genesis version doesn't even sound (music timing is all over the place) as good as the arcade game. I have both versions of the game and it's just hard for me to get into playing it on the Genesis, because it just doesn't sound right.
    If you like the compositions of the SNES SFII soundtracks, so be it, but the sound of the instruments has issues... but it's only minor compared to how butchered the voices are. They're pretty much ruined, at least what little of them actually made it into the game. I get that people were blind to this kind of stuff bitd and all of the mags were telling us that SNES has perfect sound and that all that there is to samples is scratchiness (BAD!) or non-scratchiness (CD QUALITY!)... but how can the kind of hardcore 16-bit fans who post on forums like this not instantly hear how terrible the SNES voices are, let alone how often those memory saving techniques were used in SNES games in general?
    Quote Originally Posted by year2kill06
    everyone knows nintendo is far way cooler than sega just face it nintendo has more better games and originals

  4. #94
    Road Rasher Folco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by QuickSciFi View Post
    So. To answer your question, there were many more Nintendo units (consoles/handhelds) sold than there were Sega units sold. This made for more Nintendo fans than Sega Fans. That made for more fanboys (not fans) on both sides; with the SNErdS taking the lead. The math is simple. SNErdS will feel the need to be hatin' . Take out the die-hard irrational fanboys from both sides, and you still get more Nintendo fans than Sega fans. You can't help it.
    I don't think it's a simply matter of units sold.
    Sure Nintendo sold several times more consoles (and games) than Sega which more or less distributed about 75 million units of its consoles/handhelds but the biggest disadvantage Sega has is that the relevancy of its legacy is severely weaker than Nintendo at the moment.
    Nintendo still keep alive its legacy constantly (it's probably the best videogame company that does it), they not only pump up new consoles and games but these are strictly tied to their old properties.
    Each generation new people are potentially exposed to Nintendo past achievements and current iterations.
    On the other side Sega leaving the console manufacturing business 15 years ago was a huge blow to Sega mindshare for the future years and put an end to Sega properties premium status (of being first party games).
    If we add that often Sega mismanaged its own legacy by chasing quick profits and that it couldn't keep up with the big guns in the current industry it's obvious why Sega perception is far far weaker. than Nintendo.

    This tie with another phenomenon , briefly cited by Barone, the general public tend to gravitate toward preconceived truths because they don't have the time and the will to check for their own an argument in depth.
    If we look at the many top 10 charts of the best games for a specific consoles it's easy to spot patterns.
    Not just because there are great games but because there is a consolidation of what is considered "great" or "must have" regardless if you have play in depth a game or not.
    This consolidation favour in bias Nintendo because as I said above they have a far stronger perception than Sega.

    Therefore even if Mega Drive and SNES sold more or less the same outside Japan, the SNES's legacy reputation is far stronger than Mega Drive even in the west.
    Last edited by Folco; 09-10-2016 at 05:32 AM.

  5. #95
    Raging in the Streets Team Andromeda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gamevet View Post
    Let me ask you this. Have you ever seriously played a musical instrument?

    I ask this, because to play a musical instrument, you most definitely have to have your ears in tune with every note and the tempo that you are playing at.


    I'm dead serious when I ask how someone would think that this (The main instrument sounds like it was generated by the 2600).....




    Sounds even remotely better than this?



    Fine tuned ears.
    You're right , but in terms of Arcade faithfulness the MD music is far closer to the Arcade tunes , it's the speech that lets the MD version down but that's a Hardware issue and a Hardware oversight by SEGA
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    Raging in the Streets Team Andromeda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by midnightrider View Post
    Back to opinions again:
    Pilotwings, F-Zero, Goemon, and Super Metroid don't have comparable titles. I don't see Toejam & Earl, Skitchin', Ecco, or Pirates! Gold(The Genesis also has both Unchartered Waters games, for the record, which still aren't quite the same) comparable titles on the SNES either. Bloodlines at least isn't piss easy enough for grandmother to beat, and actually has some variety to it, beyond taking the same character through the same path every time. To me, S3&K is the best platformer of the era. Tons of secrets that are only available to some of the 3 characters, who add each something unique to the core gameplay. Even with a save function, one could still beat it in an afternoon. Contra: Hard Corps. isn't ruined by levels that need the player to spin around with bosses that take forever to destroy, has a much faster adrenaline rushing pace in general, doesn't slow down at the first of the games many explosions, and has tons of variety, from 4 playable characters with 4 unique weapons each, and stage choices.

    See it's opintions and fine i can live with that, but there's nothing comparreable to Pioltwings or Super Metroid on the MD , There's nothing on the MD that's like SOS / Septentrion. Like I've always said all systems have their strenghts and weakness. Also I don't agree with you on Contra or Castvlevania . Hard Corps is a showcase for the the MD hardware and is handing so much more than the Snes game, but it doesn't play as good, the bosses battle aren't as good, it sounds nowhere near the Snes version and its far... far.. to hard for its own good . Bloodlines isn't a patch on the castlevania IV on almost every level for me : Level desgin, bosses, music and gfx . Sonic III and S&K is when the Sonic games started trying to be a bit too Mario like for me and I've always thought Quackshot was the best platform game on the MD along with Revenge and Ghost N Ghouls (which is so much better than the rubbish Snes version imo)
    Panzer Dragoon Zwei is
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    Presented for your pleasure

  7. #97
    I remain nonsequitur Shining Hero sheath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gamevet View Post
    Point me in the direction of this enhanced emulation, because I've never heard of any such thing.

    I'd like to hear some of your examples.

    It's a pick your poison with this track. The Genesis version has better bass and a much snappier snare drum sound, but the main instrument sounds like it's being pushed through a thin aluminum pipe; it has a horrible twang to it. The SNES version has a slightly subdued bass and the snare drum sort of cuts off short, but the main instrument sounds better.
    You've never heard of emulation being enhanced, audio and video? SNES emulators are notorious for it, but Tido just confirmed Genesis video was always off in emulators too.

    MK2 Genesis:
    http://www.gamepilgrimage.com/sites/...nds/MK2gen.MP3

    MK2 SNES:
    http://www.gamepilgrimage.com/sites/...ds/MK2SNES.MP3
    "... If Sony reduced the price of the Playstation, Sega would have to follow suit in order to stay competitive, but Saturn's high manufacturing cost would then translate into huge losses for the company." p170 Revolutionaries at Sony.

    "We ... put Sega out of the hardware business ..." Peter Dille senior vice president of marketing at Sony Computer Entertainment

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    Quote Originally Posted by gamevet View Post
    Point me in the direction of this enhanced emulation, because I've never heard of any such thing.
    Would a snapshot of ZSNES sound settings do?


    Quote Originally Posted by Team Andromeda View Post
    You're right , but in terms of Arcade faithfulness the MD music is far closer to the Arcade tunes , it's the speech that lets the MD version down but that's a Hardware issue and a Hardware oversight by SEGA
    I thought we proved it was Capcom's fault with those new Driver patches by Stephane for Genesis SS2 & SSF2?



    Thus a software issue, not hardware.

  9. #99
    End of line.. Hero of Algol gamevet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sheath View Post
    You've never heard of emulation being enhanced, audio and video? SNES emulators are notorious for it, but Tido just confirmed Genesis video was always off in emulators too.

    MK2 Genesis:
    http://www.gamepilgrimage.com/sites/...nds/MK2gen.MP3

    MK2 SNES:
    http://www.gamepilgrimage.com/sites/...ds/MK2SNES.MP3
    I've used Kfusion for the Genesis. I've used BSNES and ZSNES for the SNES. The only things that I've messed with are the resolution and scan lines.

    The track you posted for the Genesis still has that vibrating aluminum sound. It's a little irritating to me.
    A Black Falcon: no, computer games and video games are NOT the same thing. Video games are on consoles, computer games are on PC. The two kinds of games are different, and have significantly different design styles, distribution methods, and game genre selections. Computer gaming and console (video) gaming are NOT the same thing."



  10. #100
    I remain nonsequitur Shining Hero sheath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gamevet View Post
    I've used Kfusion for the Genesis. I've used BSNES and ZSNES for the SNES. The only things that I've messed with are the resolution and scan lines.

    The track you posted for the Genesis still has that vibrating aluminum sound. It's a little irritating to me.
    SNES emulators enhance the audio by default.
    "... If Sony reduced the price of the Playstation, Sega would have to follow suit in order to stay competitive, but Saturn's high manufacturing cost would then translate into huge losses for the company." p170 Revolutionaries at Sony.

    "We ... put Sega out of the hardware business ..." Peter Dille senior vice president of marketing at Sony Computer Entertainment

  11. #101
    8 & 16 bit guy Outrunner Bloodreign's Avatar
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    It's OK to like both, they have good games for both, stuff worth putting time into. I own both systems, I won't put one over the other, I just want to get as many good games for both as I possibly can.

  12. #102
    Hero of Algol TrekkiesUnite118's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sheath View Post
    SNES emulators enhance the audio by default.
    As do most emulators for all systems to be perfectly honest. But if we're talking about Street Fighter and Mortal Kombat, here's real hardware recordings for the Genesis versions from Model 1's and Model 2's with the Mega Amp mod:





    Personally I think the main issue with Vega/Balrog's theme on the Genesis is that it sounds like they tried to make it sound more like the SNES version instead of the Arcade original. The beta version floating around sounds much better I think:



    Vega's theme is at around the 30 minute mark.

    Arcade for comparison:



    Vega is around the 26-27 minute mark.

    Quote Originally Posted by sheath View Post
    Holy Shit! Trekkies being a dipshit who never even bothers to cite sources, Barone pretending he is a responsible poster, and their buddy "Stu" the anti-Orbi guy troll don't bother me at all. But This group cannot even stand up for a guy who has done more than enough work on the audio end of Sega Genesis related emulation and mods?!

    Oh yeah, I keep forgetting to cowtow for never researching like these geniuses.

    http://gamepilgrimage.com/content/3d...1se-benchmarks
    Myself and others have cited numerous sources for you over the years. You just ignored them because they went against your preconceived bias. I specifically remember in the thread you blew up and quit over we threw source after source in your face and you refused to look at them and just kept saying we weren't providing them. In fact, I can go back and provide specific posts where we provided sources to you.

    Nice benchmarks, though what you're trying to show with them isn't quite clear. The poor color choice makes things even worse as it's hard to tell which bar is which. Though if you're trying to prove the Dreamcast was as good as or more powerful than PC technology (as was your previous argument years ago if I remember correctly), your own graphs prove that one wrong as Quake 3 is running at a much higher frame rate at 640x480 on all of them.

    And why do we need to come to Gecko's defense? He's an adult, he can take care of himself. I agree with him that Vega's theme sounds awful on the SNES and out of tune. But I also agree with Gamevet that the version released for the Genesis sounds equally terrible for different reasons. If unreleased versions count the Genesis beta beats both of them, if unreleased doesn't count then they both lose to the PC Engine on that one.


  13. #103
    Hero of Algol
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    Quote Originally Posted by sheath View Post
    Barone pretending he is a responsible poster
    Certainly more responsible than you and your fake account (which is perma banned, btw):
    http://www.sega-16.com/forum/member....2956-LastBronx
    http://www.sega-16.com/forum/showthr...374#post695374

    I hope you don't teach things like that to the kids of your church.

    Instead of man up, you cowardly lurked for fucking two years and came back with the same stupid mindset.
    Last edited by Barone; 09-10-2016 at 03:52 PM.

  14. #104
    Stuck in the Past Shining Hero The Jackal's Avatar
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    Barone have you ever thought that guy (LastBronx) might of been someone else who didn't like you, and maybe, just maybe wasn't an alt of Sheath's like you claim?

    I see nothing else to connect the two.

  15. #105
    Hero of Algol TrekkiesUnite118's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Jackal View Post
    Barone have you ever thought that guy (LastBronx) might of been someone else who didn't like you, and maybe, just maybe wasn't an alt of Sheath's like you claim?

    I see nothing else to connect the two.
    The only connections I see are that he joined right around when Sheath rage quit the forums, and early on had a bone to pick with Barone and I for little to no reason. But I agree it is a bit of a stretch to say they're the same person.

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