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Thread: Why do people have issues with others not being fans of the SNES?

  1. #31
    Master of Shinobi midnightrider's Avatar
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    ^and they'll just breeze past the first stage in Contra 3 on their first try? Meanwhile, they won't get 15 hours into Phantasy Star IV/Shining Force?

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    Road Rasher DJ_Convoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by midnightrider View Post
    Point: Take internet nerds with a grain of salt.
    I mean really, it all boils down to this.
    "Two and two continue to make four, in spite of the whine of the amateur for three, or the cry of the critic for five." - James McNeill Whistler

  3. #33
    Framemeister Expert Hedgehog-in-TrainingOutrunner Tower of Power's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by midnightrider View Post
    ^and they'll just breeze past the first stage in Contra 3 on their first try? Meanwhile, they won't get 15 hours into Phantasy Star IV/Shining Force?
    Of course the Genesis has good RPGs and the SNES has good action games, but generally the games thought to be the best Genesis games are action games, and the games people generally think are best on SNES are RPG or otherwise slower paced.

  4. #34
    Raging in the Streets goldenband's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tower of Power View Post
    Also, on early emulators, Genesis games tended to sound worse than they do on real hardware, while SNES games tended to sound better. So that fed into the misinformed notion that the Genesis has "bad" sounding games.
    Well, that and the Model 2. I sometimes think that people overstate the sound issue on the Model 2, but the distortion and lack of top and bottom end really do make a big difference. Add to that bad FM programming, with lots of really awful sounds masquerading as "aggressive" or "in your face", and you've got a recipe for disaster.

    The Genesis can get a kind of crystalline clarity that's one of its big selling points -- think of the beginning of Ecco, or the last level of World of Illusion, or much of Light Crusader's soundtrack. But when you've got a library that's got more than its share of fake FM "guitars" being piped through a distorted, band-limited signal path, it's not entirely impossible to understand why people write things like "All of the music on [the Genesis] is harsh, abrasive bullshit", dickish though that comment may be.

    It's hard to write good FM music. A lot of developers fell down on that job, and the ones that didn't were no doubt horrified to hear what the Model 2 did to their work.

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    ESWAT Veteran Team Andromeda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by midnightrider View Post
    ^If that were true, why has no JRPG(barring one series, bolstered by trading cards and animes) come close to Final Fantasy VII's sales since?




    This is what's called an opinion. Let me show you how I see it:

    There is no way in hell, Sonic 2, Sonic 3&K, Streets of Rage 2, Gunstar Heroes, Contra: Hard Corps., Shinobi III, Phantasy Star IV, Shining Force, Shining Force 2, M.U.S.H.A., and Lightening Force/Thunder Force IV, just for starters(I'd also mention Alien Soldier, but we didn't get that one over here), are not in the same league as the SNES' best.(Come to think of it, where do sports, non-casual racing, run 'n guns, shoot 'em ups, and beat 'em ups manage to disappear to, when top # game lists get made?)
    I really don't get why the Sonic games get so much priase when to me the Mickey Mouse castle of illusion, Revenge of Shinobi and more so Quack Shot are much better platform games . When it came for shooters and Sports games there's no question for me the MD was and is better. But nothing on the Mega Drive came close to Pioltwings, F-Zero, Super Metroid, Castlevania IV, Mario IV (sheer perfection) Contra III, Mystic Ninja
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  6. #36
    Framemeister Expert Hedgehog-in-TrainingOutrunner Tower of Power's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by goldenband View Post
    Well, that and the Model 2. I sometimes think that people overstate the sound issue on the Model 2, but the distortion and lack of top and bottom end really do make a big difference. Add to that bad FM programming, with lots of really awful sounds masquerading as "aggressive" or "in your face", and you've got a recipe for disaster.

    The Genesis can get a kind of crystalline clarity that's one of its big selling points -- think of the beginning of Ecco, or the last level of World of Illusion, or much of Light Crusader's soundtrack. But when you've got a library that's got more than its share of fake FM "guitars" being piped through a distorted, band-limited signal path, it's not entirely impossible to understand why people write things like "All of the music on [the Genesis] is harsh, abrasive bullshit", dickish though that comment may be.

    It's hard to write good FM music. A lot of developers fell down on that job, and the ones that didn't were no doubt horrified to hear what the Model 2 did to their work.
    The thing that really gets me is how good a model 1 sounds hooked into a good pair of speakers. The sound chip is like any other instrument, it's like pairing a good guitar with a good amplifier. A tinny mono TV speaker isn't going to do it justice. It's a sound chip meant to emulate arcade games, so you need good speakers cranked up, like in an arcade. First time I noticed this was when I hooked my model 1 up to some good speakers and booted up Mortal Kombat. I had heard that intro music hundreds of times, but it sounded awesome with some proper bass.

    SNES on the other hand I think generally benefits more from regular TV speakers, it hides the muffled-ness of most soundtracks.

    The Model 2 can make bad sounding games sound truly awful, but I think the games with good music still sound pretty good on it, if only a shadow of what a model 1 can do.

  7. #37
    Raging in the Streets goldenband's Avatar
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    ^This is a very good point and one that goes underrecognized. Sure, we play our systems over composite, S-VHS, or RGB now, and many of us have them hooked up to a good stereo system.

    But back in 1991? Heck no, it was a low-end CRT over RF, or composite at best. And in that situation, the SNES's flaws (muffled sound) are indeed well-hidden, while the Genesis's strengths (deep bass, crystalline highs) are mostly lost over a cheap TV speaker. I do remember noticing aliasing in the sounds used in SNES games like Drakkhen, but I definitely didn't notice the muffled treble.

    There are some games with good soundtracks that get wrecked on the Model 2. IIRC Chuck Rock's soundtrack, which is highly regarded in many quarters, sounded completely overmodulated and harsh on my Model 2. Does the Model 2 have less headroom in its audio circuit, I wonder?

  8. #38
    Master of Shinobi midnightrider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Team Andromeda View Post
    I really don't get why the Sonic games get so much priase when to me the Mickey Mouse castle of illusion, Revenge of Shinobi and more so Quack Shot are much better platform games . When it came for shooters and Sports games there's no question for me the MD was and is better. But nothing on the Mega Drive came close to Pioltwings, F-Zero, Super Metroid, Castlevania IV, Mario IV (sheer perfection) Contra III, Mystic Ninja
    Back to opinions again:
    Pilotwings, F-Zero, Goemon, and Super Metroid don't have comparable titles. I don't see Toejam & Earl, Skitchin', Ecco, or Pirates! Gold(The Genesis also has both Unchartered Waters games, for the record, which still aren't quite the same) comparable titles on the SNES either. Bloodlines at least isn't piss easy enough for grandmother to beat, and actually has some variety to it, beyond taking the same character through the same path every time. To me, S3&K is the best platformer of the era. Tons of secrets that are only available to some of the 3 characters, who add each something unique to the core gameplay. Even with a save function, one could still beat it in an afternoon. Contra: Hard Corps. isn't ruined by levels that need the player to spin around with bosses that take forever to destroy, has a much faster adrenaline rushing pace in general, doesn't slow down at the first of the games many explosions, and has tons of variety, from 4 playable characters with 4 unique weapons each, and stage choices.

    Personally I haven't like Mario all that much since 2. The last time the series retained an arcade-like feel, that once again, could be beaten in an afternoon.











    The real heart of the matter is this. Everyone has their own opinions, and what they are don't matter. All that matters is what you think for yourself. Just don't share it (or at least don't be an ass and try to present it like yours is fact). Also, don't be rattled by other peoples, even if it seems most disagree with your own. Stick to your guns and enjoy what you do, for whatever reasons you do.
    Last edited by midnightrider; 09-07-2016 at 07:29 PM.

  9. #39
    Raging in the Streets Sik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tower of Power View Post
    The one nom-rpg game on SNES that I'd maybe put above anything on Genesis is Superior Metroid. That game is incredible. And it's a good example of what I was talking about. The design of it is more like the games that came in the PlayStation generations. Lots of save points. It's challenging, but not especially difficult. The length comes more from the exploration and the amount of content rather than trying to truly master the game by playing the same sections over and over.
    Amusingly some days ago a friend was being torn apart by SNES fanboys because he dared to say he didn't like using L/R for aiming. Yeaaaaaah... (I personally never used it, a pain in the ass to aim when I could just use the D-pad and there aren't many moments where I definitely want to avoid running)

    Also I'd say a much worse offender is the part where you have to break a glass tube. How the heck are you supposed to know it can shatter like that? Yeah there's a broken tube nearby, but you could very well just ignore it as just being more scenery detail rather than an actual clue.

  10. #40
    End of line.. Hero of Algol gamevet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chilled View Post
    As a Mega Drive fanboy myself, I have to acknowledge to the technical superiority of the SNES and the better library. It's sad but that's it. I own 4 Mega Drives and don't plan to ever get a SNES, though (played through emulation mostly).

    You can be all the angry you want against SNES fanboyism not accepting constructive criticism, they are mostly right. SNES library trounces MD one at first, second and third party level for every year they were both in the market, starting 1990.

    As someone already said in this post, the top games were more polished and many second tier great MD games suffer from certain flaws we tend to overlook as Sega fans. In my case, I may love Landstalker over Zelda 3, but the first one suffers from not having a shadow under the player and some other things that don't make it a perfect tittle like the latter is.

    And most of the multiplat games are better on the SNES, either because the console is better in every aspect but brute speed (largely compensated with all those on-cart chips, even for decompression!), or because they were programmed/ported to that console specifically and then re-ported to the MD.

    EDIT: oh, and half this forum may get angry at me, but the biggest chunk of the better MD games came in 1994 and 1995, when the console was already getting far less attantion than before. That means most of the people just don't take into account those games when comparing, they simply don't know them (but they know about Killer Instinct, DK3, SF2 Alpha, the latter RPGs...). Sega disappearing as a console manufacturer didn't help either.
    Also some of the better games on the MD were SNES/Arcade knockoffs created solely to counteract not having those licences.
    Thank you!

    I just don't get how someone can hear a beautiful music composition on the SNES and then trash it because it isn't as in your face loud as the vibrating sounds that the Genesis creates. A perfect example is Street Fighter 2, with its improved sound track and good sounding voice samples. I keep hearing these raving Genesis fans trying to say that the Genesis version is better, yet the Genesis version doesn't even sound (music timing is all over the place) as good as the arcade game. I have both versions of the game and it's just hard for me to get into playing it on the Genesis, because it just doesn't sound right.

    I was quite surprise to hear QuickSciFi exclaim that the Genesis version of MKII is better than the SNES version. I totally skipped that title on the Genesis, because I had thought that MK1 was pretty shitty looking (and sounding) compared to the family friendly SNES port. I opted for the SNES version and have never considered even checking out the Genesis game at all. So, after hearing him say that, I decided to check out some comparison videos. I can honestly say that the Genesis conversion of MKII looks and sounds pretty good, though it does have a lot of voice samples removed from it. I might actually try to find a cheap copy of that version really soon.

    I'm a fan of all 3 consoles from that generation. The SNES and the Genesis are the Yin and Yang of that generation, so it sort of blows my mind when someone can like one console and not the other. The libraries of both consoles compliment each other and you would be doing yourself a disservice by not playing both.
    A Black Falcon: no, computer games and video games are NOT the same thing. Video games are on consoles, computer games are on PC. The two kinds of games are different, and have significantly different design styles, distribution methods, and game genre selections. Computer gaming and console (video) gaming are NOT the same thing."



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    ESWAT Veteran Da_Shocker's Avatar
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    What are the ages of these people I gotta wonder? I was 10 years old when the SNES came out and that was 25 years ago. You mean to tell me mfers out chere are acting like kids?
    Quote Originally Posted by Zoltor View Post
    Japan on the other hand is in real danger, if Japanese men don't start liking to play with their woman, more then them selves, experts calculated the Japanese will be extinct within 300 years.

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    Raging in the Streets EclecticGroove's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gamevet View Post

    The SNES and the Genesis are the Yin and Yang of that generation, so it sort of blows my mind when someone can like one console and not the other. The libraries of both consoles compliment each other and you would be doing yourself a disservice by not playing both.
    Absolutely.
    I don't collect anything for the SNES purely because it's entirely too expensive for what I would want on it.
    I still love many SNES games, far more than enough to make it worthwhile to own the system itself.... but they are priced out of the sweet spot where I'd buy them, thus I get them elsewhere on other systems.

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    End of line.. Hero of Algol gamevet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EclecticGroove View Post
    Absolutely.
    I don't collect anything for the SNES purely because it's entirely too expensive for what I would want on it.
    I still love many SNES games, far more than enough to make it worthwhile to own the system itself.... but they are priced out of the sweet spot where I'd buy them, thus I get them elsewhere on other systems.
    I'm fortunate to have most of the popular games of the time, because I bought them when they were still cheap and the console was on the decline. I did the same with my Genesis.

    I use a Super UFO Pro 8, to play ROM files of games that I didn't get back then. It works just fine with the SNES, though the save feature is sort of janky and games with the FX chips are sort of supported, but not really.

    http://www.emuparadise.me/reviews/SuperUFO/

    I'd really like to see a Genesis version of this cart soon.
    A Black Falcon: no, computer games and video games are NOT the same thing. Video games are on consoles, computer games are on PC. The two kinds of games are different, and have significantly different design styles, distribution methods, and game genre selections. Computer gaming and console (video) gaming are NOT the same thing."



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    ESWAT Veteran Da_Shocker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EclecticGroove View Post
    Absolutely.
    I don't collect anything for the SNES purely because it's entirely too expensive for what I would want on it.
    I still love many SNES games, far more than enough to make it worthwhile to own the system itself.... but they are priced out of the sweet spot where I'd buy them, thus I get them elsewhere on other systems.
    True but what about an Everdrive?
    Quote Originally Posted by Zoltor View Post
    Japan on the other hand is in real danger, if Japanese men don't start liking to play with their woman, more then them selves, experts calculated the Japanese will be extinct within 300 years.

  15. #45
    Master of Shinobi midnightrider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gamevet View Post
    Thank you!

    I just don't get how someone can hear a beautiful music composition on the SNES and then trash it because it isn't as in your face loud as the vibrating sounds that the Genesis creates. A perfect example is Street Fighter 2, with its improved sound track and good sounding voice samples. I keep hearing these raving Genesis fans trying to say that the Genesis version is better, yet the Genesis version doesn't even sound (music timing is all over the place) as good as the arcade game. I have both versions of the game and it's just hard for me to get into playing it on the Genesis, because it just doesn't sound right.
    The issue that started this thread is exactly this kind of "I don't understand how people don't see things my way" bullshit. It's like telling people they're wrong for preferring heavy metal to Mozart.

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