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Thread: DVD Dreamcast / Sega Master System wasn't that big of a seller.

  1. #16
    End of line.. Hero of Algol gamevet's Avatar
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    I already had a launch Dreamcast. SEGA of America was offering a free Dreamcast with a subscription to their online service provider. They offered a free keyboard and up to $200 to existing DC owners that subscribed. I called them and got a free DC keyboard along with a $100 check.
    A Black Falcon: no, computer games and video games are NOT the same thing. Video games are on consoles, computer games are on PC. The two kinds of games are different, and have significantly different design styles, distribution methods, and game genre selections. Computer gaming and console (video) gaming are NOT the same thing."



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    Raging in the Streets Yharnamresident's Avatar
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    Heres the thing:

    I'm right in-between the people who say the Dreamcast needed a DVD player, and the people who say it didn't.

    The proper solution would've been to have some electronics company make a DVD clone format for the Dreamcast, maybe with 3-4 GB discs. With no DVD movie playback. That way they could avoid most licensing costs, but they'd still have to deal with manufacturing costs. So the Dreamcast would cost $300, maybe with a RAM upgrade also.

    The Dreamcast wasn't gonna last until 2002/2003 with those 1 GB discs. Like we all saw how the GameCube didn't get much 3rd party support, and when it did, it got crappy ports with the game split between 2 discs and/or insanely compressed FMV and audio. And that was with 1.4 GB miniDVDs.

    Like sure, developers didn't need 3-4 GBs of space in 1998, but we're talking about long-term sustainability until like 2004.

    Quote Originally Posted by IrishNinja View Post
    i feel like there'd already been a shift the gen prior when sony came in & gave devs C++ (?) toolkits & the like, but here we really start seeing where old school sega/nintendo were learning they couldn't compete on the same terms as companies like sony & MS that could survive hemorrhaging billions in the short term for a long term profit down the road (MS would do that the same gen, sony the following).
    Yea that definitely happened. During the GameCube's lifespan, there was a decision made at Nintendo that they can't compete head to head with these companies. So they went down this path of gimmicky underpowered hardware starting with the Wii and DS.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kamahl View Post
    DVD wouldn't have helped in any way. Sega would not have been able to afford a Movie Player license, not even Microsoft was willing to eat that cost with the Xbox.
    If Sega had gone with DVD, the DC would have cost another min $50, more likely $100, and would still need a separate purchase for DVD movie playback. Or people could just wait for the PS2 and get movie playback and (overhyped) game console at the same time.
    Yea people who say the Dreamcast should've had a DVD player, aren't completely educated on licensing. The reason Sony was able to put a DVD player in the PS2 with no bullshit involved(unlike OG Xbox), is because they co-created the format with Phillips(I think this the right company). What are they gonna do, pay royalties to themselves for using the format?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kamahl View Post
    What the Dreamcast needed was for the previous failures to not have happened. There was nothing it could have done.
    Exactly. Profitless mess after profitless mess, by the time the Dreamcast was released, they were practically out of money

    Quote Originally Posted by Kamahl View Post
    Maybe having a decent controller instead of that piece of crap would have given it another year
    You just keep getting more and more accurate
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    Man in Black Master of Shinobi IrishNinja's Avatar
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    ^you're not wrong about GC disc size, but was it really that big an issue? i imagine it didn't help porting, but showing up late, coming off the N64 & facing the gargantuan PS2 were the main problems; if the GC were in a better market spot, i wonder how much media size would matter.

    i similarly recall concerns last gen with MS still using DVD, but since they were lead platform for much of the gen, it was rarely an issue

    Quote Originally Posted by gamevet View Post
    I already had a launch Dreamcast. SEGA of America was offering a free Dreamcast with a subscription to their online service provider. They offered a free keyboard and up to $200 to existing DC owners that subscribed. I called them and got a free DC keyboard along with a $100 check.
    jesus christ
    i bought a keyboard & sub'd at one point, i wanna say when it ran out i rented a 2k sports game because a friend told me the trial wouldn't run out (and i recall it didn't, played PSO right up till about when sega.net went down)


  4. #19
    End of line.. Hero of Algol gamevet's Avatar
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    You had to sign up with their internet partner, EarthLink. I believe others used their existing internet services like AOL and it worked as well. You just didn't get the free Dreamcast and other offers from SEGA.
    A Black Falcon: no, computer games and video games are NOT the same thing. Video games are on consoles, computer games are on PC. The two kinds of games are different, and have significantly different design styles, distribution methods, and game genre selections. Computer gaming and console (video) gaming are NOT the same thing."



  5. #20
    Raging in the Streets Yharnamresident's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IrishNinja View Post
    ^you're not wrong about GC disc size, but was it really that big an issue? i imagine it didn't help porting, but showing up late, coming off the N64 & facing the gargantuan PS2 were the main problems; if the GC were in a better market spot, i wonder how much media size would matter.

    i similarly recall concerns last gen with MS still using DVD, but since they were lead platform for much of the gen, it was rarely an issue
    But the 360 has a hard-drive which makes a world of difference. Like with GTA V, the first 8 GBs is installed from the first disc into the HDD, and then you use the second disc to play.
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    The Future Is Yesterday Hedgehog-in-TrainingRaging in the Streets SegataS's Avatar
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    Dc

    I think SEGA should have partnered with MS in that MS handled the hardware and SEGA put their name on it, included the DVD drive and would not hurt if it had it. Not totally different how Nvidia designed and manufactured Switch insides with Nintendo just approving it(yeah yeah I know it's downclocked stock X1). Worldwide release in 1999 and keep the 9/9/99 as marketing for every region. With the partnership, SEGA would not have had to front all the costs. Split the revenue on the sales. Likely still would have lost to PS2 as Sony was on high momentum but be competitive. As it is I look at Xbox as the continuation of Dreamcast and 360 as close as we got to Dreamcast 2. XBO...lol Nah.



    PS Not a popular opinion but I LOVE the DC controller. I do think it could have used the second analog.



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    Master of Shinobi Mega Drive Bowlsey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SegataS View Post
    I think SEGA should have partnered with MS in that MS handled the hardware and SEGA put their name on it, included the DVD drive and would not hurt if it had it. Not totally different how Nvidia designed and manufactured Switch insides with Nintendo just approving it(yeah yeah I know it's downclocked stock X1). Worldwide release in 1999 and keep the 9/9/99 as marketing for every region. With the partnership, SEGA would not have had to front all the costs. Split the revenue on the sales. Likely still would have lost to PS2 as Sony was on high momentum but be competitive. As it is I look at Xbox as the continuation of Dreamcast and 360 as close as we got to Dreamcast 2. XBO...lol Nah.



    PS Not a popular opinion but I LOVE the DC controller. I do think it could have used the second analog.
    The Dreamcast's controller was fine for everything but beat-'em-ups imo. It wasn't too bad for 3D beat-'em-ups but trying to master 2D fighters like Marvel vs Capcom 2 or Capcom vs SNK was not pleasant using the original controller, to put it mildly.

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    Japanese Sonic CD FTW!!! Master of Shinobi Ecco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mega Drive Bowlsey View Post
    The Dreamcast's controller was fine for everything but beat-'em-ups imo. It wasn't too bad for 3D beat-'em-ups but trying to master 2D fighters like Marvel vs Capcom 2 or Capcom vs SNK was not pleasant using the original controller, to put it mildly.
    I never minded the DC controller. Sure it's kinda strange, but way better than the N64 controller, which I think is the proper comparison. DC controller can at least be held comfortably.

    The lack of 6-button lay-out is unfortunate, although I never use all 6 buttons in any fighting game lol. Like for SFII, I only use the Strong and the Weak attacks, never the Medium attack buttons. So really, don't most people only use 4 buttons for such games lol. I used to play a lot of Marvel vs. Capcom2, and it seemed nice.

    Re: DVD player: I actually do think that this is why the PS2 sold so well (and why the DC died so fast without DVD player). In fact, I bought my PS2 Slim just to be a cool DVD player (not for its games). So yeah, I think it would have helped the DC greatly, if Sega could figure out how to include DVD player at a reasonable cost.

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    Master of Shinobi Mega Drive Bowlsey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ecco View Post
    I never minded the DC controller. Sure it's kinda strange, but way better than the N64 controller, which I think is the proper comparison. DC controller can at least be held comfortably.

    The lack of 6-button lay-out is unfortunate, although I never use all 6 buttons in any fighting game lol. Like for SFII, I only use the Strong and the Weak attacks, never the Medium attack buttons. So really, don't most people only use 4 buttons for such games lol. I used to play a lot of Marvel vs. Capcom2, and it seemed nice.

    Re: DVD player: I actually do think that this is why the PS2 sold so well (and why the DC died so fast without DVD player). In fact, I bought my PS2 Slim just to be a cool DVD player (not for its games). So yeah, I think it would have helped the DC greatly, if Sega could figure out how to include DVD player at a reasonable cost.
    Oh the N64's controller was terrible! The Dreamcast's controller was far from perfect but it wasn't that bad I agree.

  10. #25
    Raging in the Streets Yharnamresident's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SegataS View Post
    I think SEGA should have partnered with MS in that MS handled the hardware and SEGA put their name on it, included the DVD drive and would not hurt if it had it. Not totally different how Nvidia designed and manufactured Switch insides with Nintendo just approving it(yeah yeah I know it's downclocked stock X1). Worldwide release in 1999 and keep the 9/9/99 as marketing for every region. With the partnership, SEGA would not have had to front all the costs. Split the revenue on the sales. Likely still would have lost to PS2 as Sony was on high momentum but be competitive. As it is I look at Xbox as the continuation of Dreamcast and 360 as close as we got to Dreamcast 2. XBO...lol Nah.
    But it wouldn't have felt like a Sega console. Different teams produce different products.

    Its kinda like how people want Sega to make a console today, its not gonna feel like a Sega console because the company exists in name only. Every notable person has left the company.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ecco View Post
    The lack of 6-button lay-out is unfortunate, although I never use all 6 buttons in any fighting game lol. Like for SFII, I only use the Strong and the Weak attacks, never the Medium attack buttons. So really, don't most people only use 4 buttons for such games lol. I used to play a lot of Marvel vs. Capcom2, and it seemed nice.
    People think 6 buttons would've been better because its a way to combat the 4 shoulder buttons on PS2.

    Also people who say the Dreamcast controller didn't need more buttons, thats like asking a fish if it thinks water is overrated.
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    The Future Is Yesterday Hedgehog-in-TrainingRaging in the Streets SegataS's Avatar
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    I dunno about that. Nvidia designed and made Switch but still has a Nintendo touch to it. The sounds of checking your profile and the bounce of scrolling through the menu. Little touches that despite being very simple still has a personality to it. IF MS made the hardware but sold under the SEGA name the UI likely would have been the same. Outside of added features and maybe more power (not OG Xbox in 1999) probably would have been very similar.



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    Japanese Sonic CD FTW!!! Master of Shinobi Ecco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yharnamresident View Post
    People think 6 buttons would've been better because its a way to combat the 4 shoulder buttons on PS2.

    Also people who say the Dreamcast controller didn't need more buttons, thats like asking a fish if it thinks water is overrated.
    I don't understand the fish quote lol. I do think Sega should have kept the 6-button lay-out from previous consoles. (But also, I can't imagine that the DC didn't have enough buttons, maybe I haven't played enough games from that generation lol.)

  13. #28
    Raging in the Streets Yharnamresident's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ecco View Post
    I don't understand the fish quote lol. I do think Sega should have kept the 6-button lay-out from previous consoles. (But also, I can't imagine that the DC didn't have enough buttons, maybe I haven't played enough games from that generation lol.)
    Common everyone uses that fish quote haha. It means you don't know what you're missing out on, because you never experienced it. Such as a Dreamcast controller with more buttons. What if in Shenmue, you had like a separate button for viewing your diary or your items? and I don't know if Shenmue uses button combinations for fighting(I haven't gotten that far), but 6 buttons would defenitely help there. Especially with open-world games and fighting games, the more buttons the better.

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    Framemeister Expert Hedgehog-in-TrainingOutrunner Tower of Power's Avatar
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    I thought the Dreamcast controller was excellent from an ergonomics and precision perspective. The analog stick, analog triggers, and buttons all felt great, much better than the Playstation stuff.

    At the time, no one was really complaining about not having a second analog stick. It wasn't until after the Dreamcast was dead that the two analog stick control scheme became standardized, so much like the DVD played, I don't think having a second analog stick on the controller would have been helpful. Plus, it's interesting to see all the different control schemes that were tried at the time.

    The biggest thing missing from the controller at the time was probably a "select" button. Everything else seemed OK, but I think I remember not having a select button hampered ports a lot.

    Next up, "bumpers" like the Xbox 360 controller would have been useful.

    Everyone has standardized on four face buttons, so I don't think Sega was wrong to do that. I have heard complaints a lot from gamers, especially fighting game fans, that there should have been six face buttons. And, for what it's worth, I also at the time wished for six face buttons. But I think "the casuals" prefer four, which is why the industry has standardized on it. There are a couple of six button pads available for Dreamcast if you're so inclined, so there is the option.

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    Master of Shinobi Mega Drive Bowlsey's Avatar
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    Like I said the only problem I had with the Dreamcast's controller personally was with beat-'em-ups. I thought it was perfectly fine with all other game genres.

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