Quantcast

Page 5 of 7 FirstFirst 1234567 LastLast
Results 61 to 75 of 99

Thread: As a Sega Genesis gamer, do you care about stretched aspect ratio?

  1. #61
    Mega Driver Hedgehog-in-TrainingWCPO Agent Gryson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2016
    Posts
    899
    Rep Power
    34

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Allard View Post
    The games were intended to be played in 4:3, and in 4:3 I play them.
    Yes, but as addressed earlier in the thread, in many cases (especially SNES) game art was NOT drawn for 4:3. Thus, the question.

  2. #62
    Sports Talker CkRtech's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Posts
    46
    Rep Power
    0

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by retronostalgia View Post
    CkRtech, thank you for your latest aspect ratio vid, on the CPS-1.
    Glad you enjoyed it!

  3. #63
    Mega Driver Hedgehog-in-TrainingWCPO Agent Gryson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2016
    Posts
    899
    Rep Power
    34

    Default

    Knights of the Round is another one of those 384x224 CPS-1 games. It always used to confuse me when starting the game in MAME as to why it was widescreen.

    From browsing Youtube Let's Plays, it seems that many people still run it in square pixels, despite it clearly being designed for 4:3.

  4. #64
    Master of Shinobi Pyron's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Posts
    1,847
    Rep Power
    57

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Gryson View Post
    Knights of the Round is another one of those 384x224 CPS-1 games.
    Every CPS1,2,3 games run at the same resolution. People nowadays don't know about old hardware and is common you see videos on worng aspect ratio or streched to windscreen.. sadly =/

    Visit my youtube channel Pyron's Lair
    Take here all my hacks made with love for all of us here
    Want to help me? Here is my Patreon!

  5. #65
    Raging in the Streets Sik's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    3,351
    Rep Power
    63

    Default

    Most emulators defaulting to square pixels because of all the people obsessed with "must be the sharpest pixels ever ow my eye" at the expense of correct aspect ratio probably isn't helping the case (nor the fact that non-filtered images stretched up look awful for anything that isn't an integer ratio). Honestly I don't mind using bilinear filtering because honestly pixels weren't square on a CRT either (in fact, dots had a tendency to look… quite round).

    I did come up with the idea of scaling 2x without filtering then rescaling to final size with filtering that turned out to work really well on just nearly every situation I've thrown it at, even freaking 1080p which needs a particularly awful scale ratio (4.5x) and with non-square pixel ratios (e.g. the 5:4 from Mega Drive's H32), but as soon as I bring it up I get some people panicking because "omg no pixels must be sharp at all costs" @_@ (ironically, I think I like this more than unfiltered integer scaling, feels easier on the eyes)

    EDIT: disclaimer, for screenshots having the raw image with only integer scaling is actually useful (as sometimes you want to analyze the pixels or rip a sprite out of them).

  6. #66
    Master of Shinobi Pyron's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Posts
    1,847
    Rep Power
    57

    Default

    Even on CRT scene we have some madness...
    Now after MLIG and retroRGB show, people are crazier about PVM/BVM spending some fortune for their hundred of lines to play SD content thats runs at 240p at 15khz.

    its funny because these insane number of lines is not how these games is idealize to show on arcades or in development area, its looks like a emulator image on CRT. The advantage that is "noob" safe, you don't have to know how calibrate or regulate your setup, is just plug and play.

    Visit my youtube channel Pyron's Lair
    Take here all my hacks made with love for all of us here
    Want to help me? Here is my Patreon!

  7. #67
    The Shadow knows Road Rasher Allard's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Samara, Russia
    Posts
    388
    Rep Power
    18

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Gryson View Post
    Yes, but as addressed earlier in the thread, in many cases (especially SNES) game art was NOT drawn for 4:3. Thus, the question.
    Even if the art was not drawn IN 4:3, most TVs at the time were 4:3 and any developer worth their salt made sure that the art is drawn FOR 4:3. On SNES it could be achieved by drawing the art somewhat thinner than it should be so it would be stretched to its proper size on a 4:3 screen.

    People don't realize or don't give enough credit to how much the technical limitations of the monitors affect game art and how the games were intended. I mean, one CAN, of course, play 16 bit games in the internal SNES aspect ratio without smoothing the pixels and without accounting for the difference in contrast and saturation between CRT and modern displays, but it just won't be the experience devs intended. Everything would be off.
    Formerly known as -RT

  8. #68
    Mega Driver Hedgehog-in-TrainingWCPO Agent Gryson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2016
    Posts
    899
    Rep Power
    34

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Allard View Post
    Even if the art was not drawn IN 4:3, most TVs at the time were 4:3 and any developer worth their salt made sure that the art is drawn FOR 4:3. On SNES it could be achieved by drawing the art somewhat thinner than it should be so it would be stretched to its proper size on a 4:3 screen.

    People don't realize or don't give enough credit to how much the technical limitations of the monitors affect game art and how the games were intended. I mean, one CAN, of course, play 16 bit games in the internal SNES aspect ratio without smoothing the pixels and without accounting for the difference in contrast and saturation between CRT and modern displays, but it just won't be the experience devs intended. Everything would be off.
    Saying that doesn't make it a reality, unfortunately. As has already been mentioned (watch OP's videos), many, if not most, of the 256x224 console games did not have correctly adjusted art for 4:3.

    See:

    Quote Originally Posted by Gryson View Post
    Yes, regarding the SNES, there are many games that were not designed correctly with 4:3 in mind, including the Mario games:



    (source)

    Edit: So I looked at Monster World IV, which runs at 256x224:



    Proportions are definitely wrong at 4:3. Look at the misshapen circle of the tunnel hole and the squares of the wall/floor.

    Here's a list of other low-res Genesis games:

    http://www.firebrandx.com/downloads/...ode%20List.txt

    Are any designed with 4:3 in mind?
    On the Genesis, it's entirely possible that designers weren't aware that the game was going to be 256x224, or just didn't have the know-how or care to factor it in. Regardless, most of the Genesis's 256x224 games did NOT have their art correctly adjusted for 4:3.

    Capcom, on the other hand, was clearly on top of things with the CPS games.

  9. #69
    Master of Shinobi Pyron's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Posts
    1,847
    Rep Power
    57

    Default

    Exaclty Gryson,,

    Is curious because almost all nintendo games to SNES the artwork is drawed worng, also 98% of third parties developers did it worng too.. including Capcom.

    Also a litle time ago most of sega fans with great youtube channels don't know about low res and complain about screen be squezed in comparison of the original snes / pce games, the most common games is Devils Crash, Zombies ATN and others thats have side status bar. Also when the game runs in low res on snes and in hi res on MD they talk as the snes sprites are bigger than md .

    Visit my youtube channel Pyron's Lair
    Take here all my hacks made with love for all of us here
    Want to help me? Here is my Patreon!

  10. #70
    Hedgehog-in-Training Hedgehog-in-TrainingNameless One Zygrunt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2018
    Posts
    71
    Rep Power
    2

    Default

    I was very happy with my games without knowing this information in the 90s. It makes me think that the reason for so many games not caring to have the correct proportions on 4:3 screens is that it would make development a bit longer and/or more expensive and in the end most people wouldn't notice, at least until they grow up and become retro gamers

  11. #71
    Master of Shinobi Pyron's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Posts
    1,847
    Rep Power
    57

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Zygrunt View Post
    I was very happy with my games without knowing this information in the 90s. It makes me think that the reason for so many games not caring to have the correct proportions on 4:3 screens is that it would make development a bit longer and/or more expensive and in the end most people wouldn't notice, at least until they grow up and become retro gamers
    Is True, but back in the day i have my complains about it...
    It was started when i played Final Fight on Snes, i've played it alot on arcades so i know everything about it
    i'm very hyped to play it on snes and my first impression is that the game are zoomed in.. alot of background is cutted


    My friends talks that is the power of the snes to make the things bigger on the screen and etc..
    So when started 16 bits wars they use it as hardware feature to try put snes in advantage
    for kids its alright but to growth man who tries show some information over internet.. no!

    Visit my youtube channel Pyron's Lair
    Take here all my hacks made with love for all of us here
    Want to help me? Here is my Patreon!

  12. #72
    Hedgehog-in-Training Hedgehog-in-TrainingNameless One Zygrunt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2018
    Posts
    71
    Rep Power
    2

    Default

    Yeah Final Fight is probably the game I played the most at the arcades and I remember feeling something was off when I played the SNES version even if I couldn't quite grasp what was the problem. I guess I never had a good eye for that kind of stuff.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pyron View Post
    My friends talks that is the power of the snes to make the things bigger on the screen and etc..
    So when started 16 bits wars they use it as hardware feature to try put snes in advantage
    for kids its alright but to growth man who tries show some information over internet.. no!
    lol I'm glad I managed to stay away from console wars on the internet most of the time.

    But I guess it wasn't only kids back then. The whole character size thing was big on Brazilian video game magazines when comparing ports and without any mention to screen resolution or loss of details that I can remember.

  13. #73
    Mega Driver Hedgehog-in-TrainingWCPO Agent Gryson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2016
    Posts
    899
    Rep Power
    34

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Zygrunt View Post
    It makes me think that the reason for so many games not caring to have the correct proportions on 4:3 screens is that it would make development a bit longer and/or more expensive and in the end most people wouldn't notice
    Right. I imagine they were just going for "good enough" and didn't want to sacrifice the time it would take to draw everything distorted by a certain amount.

    There's also the possibility that some graphics were drawn with 4:3 in mind, while others weren't. That's why, as CkRtech says, the circle test should not always be the defining test. For example, designers might have drawn character sprites on the skinnier side knowing they would be distorted, while background artists might not have taken 4:3 into account.

  14. #74
    Raging in the Streets Sik's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    3,351
    Rep Power
    63

    Default

    Also anything rectangular likely has no hope because those graphics are usually designed to be aligned to tile boundaries (and the tiles are not square), so those probably shouldn't be considered when determining that (unlike circular shapes).

    Quote Originally Posted by Zygrunt View Post
    But I guess it wasn't only kids back then. The whole character size thing was big on Brazilian video game magazines when comparing ports and without any mention to screen resolution or loss of details that I can remember.
    I mean, that kind of sensationalism is what generated sales :​v

    EDIT: reminds me, yesterday I was reading some Japanese magazine from 1992 and at some point it talks about Final Fight CD and they spend a good chunk of the space to taking a jab at the SNES version lacking Guy, a whole stage and 2P mode (all of which are present in the Sega CD version). Including a screenshot showing all three things at the same time (Guy in the missing stage, and the 2P HUD bar is visible).

    EDIT: on that note, Final Fight SNES doesn't compress graphics at all if I recall correctly? (it was an early SNES game after all but… jeez) That's likely why they ended up removing Guy and that stage (no comments on lack of 2P). I wouldn't be surprised of Poison missing was also in part due to this, rather than just Nintendo's policies.

  15. #75
    Hedgehog-in-Training Hedgehog-in-TrainingRoad Rasher Stifu's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2018
    Posts
    256
    Rep Power
    6

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Sik View Post
    I wouldn't be surprised of Poison missing was also in part due to this, rather than just Nintendo's policies.
    No, because she's in the Japanese version. Besides, it's not like she was simply removed from the English releases, she was replaced by a character that probably takes about as much space.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •