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Thread: Vixen 357: Official Thread

  1. #91
    RasterSoft Dev Death Adder's minion cdoty's Avatar
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    That sounds a little dramatic.
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  2. #92
    Loves Lori Bazzil! Raging in the Streets 108 Stars's Avatar
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    On one hand, I appreciate cancelling a failed project instead of collecting money and keeping it in limbo for years.

    That said the reasoning seems baffling. Not being able to secure another manufacturer, I could see that even if it seems unlikely to be unable to do so. But shutting down the entire publishing business and cancelling the product because of a delay, and just because of a promise made to Brandon himself? That seems very extreme.

    Kind of reminds me of the Monty Python sketch with the dirty fork in the Restaurant, where a customer just mentions he would like another fork and that leads to the waiter, the Manager and the cook to feel the business is ruined. And to death.

    Well, maybe Piko can work something out.

  3. #93
    Raging in the Streets Sik's Avatar
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    The impression I get is that they were struggling beforehand and they were depending on this coming out in time to save themselves.

  4. #94
    Hedgehog-in-Training Hedgehog-in-TrainingRoad Rasher Stifu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 108 Stars View Post
    That seems very extreme.
    True. I read it as "I have brought shame upon my name and business, I must commit seppuku!"
    Still, I wish Brandon all the best. (Remember me, Brandon? I made some Super Fighter pixel art for you ages ago )

  5. #95
    Mega Driver Hedgehog-in-TrainingWCPO Agent Gryson's Avatar
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    Maybe reading too much into it, but I wonder if pre-orders on Vixen 357 just weren't good enough to justify production. Interest didn't seem very high, and the translated ROM had already been released.

  6. #96
    Toejam is a wiener. Master of Shinobi SEGA-Jorge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gryson View Post
    Maybe reading too much into it, but I wonder if pre-orders on Vixen 357 just weren't good enough to justify production. Interest didn't seem very high, and the translated ROM had already been released.
    Was the translated rom any different than the release they were planning on? Even though roms exist for stuff, I think there is still a demand for complete releases of games. I think these sorts of things should be handled like the BITS stuff. Just build it yourself sort of things. In fact. If all new genesis games had a different box, or just came in different packaging, I don't think that would be a deal breaker. The manufacturing process doesn't necessarily need to be this daunting. I would rather have the ability to purchase these games well into the future, or have additional runs printed, without the drama associated to all the new releases. It's crazy how easy it is to make a repro, print some covers, and toss them in a case. They don't need to be perfect. Hell, up until recently, most of these releases, with the exception of Peir Solar and the Watermelon stuff, Xeno Crisis, and Tanglewood, most of the new titles don't look as good as a vast majority of the stuff I see coming from repro-makers. (What do we call these people?)

  7. #97
    Mega Driver Hedgehog-in-TrainingWCPO Agent Gryson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SEGA-Jorge View Post
    Was the translated rom any different than the release they were planning on?
    I don't think so. SFT acquired the rights to the game and then made a deal with the ROM hackers who had translated it.

    Even though roms exist for stuff, I think there is still a demand for complete releases of games. I think these sorts of things should be handled like the BITS stuff. Just build it yourself sort of things. In fact. If all new genesis games had a different box, or just came in different packaging, I don't think that would be a deal breaker. The manufacturing process doesn't necessarily need to be this daunting. I would rather have the ability to purchase these games well into the future, or have additional runs printed, without the drama associated to all the new releases. It's crazy how easy it is to make a repro, print some covers, and toss them in a case. They don't need to be perfect. Hell, up until recently, most of these releases, with the exception of Peir Solar and the Watermelon stuff, Xeno Crisis, and Tanglewood, most of the new titles don't look as good as a vast majority of the stuff I see coming from repro-makers. (What do we call these people?)
    The market is a bit fickle. Piko has constantly complained here that many of his Genesis games sell less than 100 copies (maybe things have changed)? I believe Piko was hand-making his games (again, this could have changed), so he can afford to have low production runs. However, if you're going through a factory in China, you probably have to have a high minimum investment to see a return, and if you only have 68 pre-orders or something low like that, it's just not worth it.

    I don't want to base everything off of this thread, but there was very little excitement for Vixen 357 here. The story might have been different 10 years ago when releases like this were still rare.

  8. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by 108 Stars View Post
    Kind of reminds me of the Monty Python sketch with the dirty fork in the Restaurant, where a customer just mentions he would like another fork and that leads to the waiter, the Manager and the cook to feel the business is ruined. And to death.
    I actually saw that sketch an hour before getting that email and had the exact same thoughts as you .

    Brandon has changed his mind before, he can do it again.
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  9. #99
    Road Rasher pikointeractive's Avatar
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    No Dice Helping on Vixen.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gryson View Post
    I don't think so. SFT acquired the rights to the game and then made a deal with the ROM hackers who had translated it.



    The market is a bit fickle. Piko has constantly complained here that many of his Genesis games sell less than 100 copies (maybe things have changed)? I believe Piko was hand-making his games (again, this could have changed), so he can afford to have low production runs. However, if you're going through a factory in China, you probably have to have a high minimum investment to see a return, and if you only have 68 pre-orders or something low like that, it's just not worth it.

    I don't want to base everything off of this thread, but there was very little excitement for Vixen 357 here. The story might have been different 10 years ago when releases like this were still rare.
    Yeah, Although that was for smaller stuff, and I always based that on the first 2-3 weeks of pre-orders. It is definitely more than that now. But nothing crazy like Ultracore that sold out 1500 units in two minutes, or 10,000 copies of pier solar.

    We don't do anything by hand now, all mass produced, but I have made up my own little formula to be able to do small runs mass produced and keep prices reasonable (40-50 bucks).

  10. #100
    Raging in the Streets Sik's Avatar
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    Gley Lancer sold out its initial batch which was reported to be 2,500 copies and is now on its second batch and as far as I'm aware the only known change on that one is the copyright in the title screen… I'm not sure that availability is a factor here, albeit a shmup is probably a much easier sell.

    Also when Piko was complaining about selling little he was focusing on games that were, erm, not exactly that worth it (except Water Margin and Duke Nukem 3D). No surprise that those didn't sell much, a "big" homebrew release seems to sell at least 1,000 physical copies these days, and that's with all the whistles (albeit you need to keep focusing heavily on promotion if you want to go further than whatever you sell on the obligatory kickstarter campaign).

  11. #101
    Road Rasher pikointeractive's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sik View Post
    Gley Lancer sold out its initial batch which was reported to be 2,500 copies and is now on its second batch and as far as I'm aware the only known change on that one is the copyright in the title screen… I'm not sure that availability is a factor here, albeit a shmup is probably a much easier sell.

    Also when Piko was complaining about selling little he was focusing on games that were, erm, not exactly that worth it (except Water Margin and Duke Nukem 3D). No surprise that those didn't sell much, a "big" homebrew release seems to sell at least 1,000 physical copies these days, and that's with all the whistles (albeit you need to keep focusing heavily on promotion if you want to go further than whatever you sell on the obligatory kickstarter campaign).
    Gley Lancer was sold by Columbus no? They have heavy distribution which is mainly through stores and third party. They sold (although SNES) Iron Commando and Gourmet Warrior reprints like over 3000 copies each pretty quickly.

  12. #102
    Raging in the Streets Sik's Avatar
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    Yep. It does seem that Gley Lancer caught them off guard though, judging from comments they made on Twitter later when they were talking about the second reprint.

    This actually brings me to another issue which is that distribution is hard, and current shipping prices are probably scaring some people away. That's another problem to be solved and probably will end up involving publishers cooperating with each other to make access easier in each other's local regions. This is already a thing for modern games too (where a publisher acts as distributor for another publisher, often without being explicitly named).

  13. #103
    Road Rasher pikointeractive's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sik View Post
    Yep. It does seem that Gley Lancer caught them off guard though, judging from comments they made on Twitter later when they were talking about the second reprint.

    This actually brings me to another issue which is that distribution is hard, and current shipping prices are probably scaring some people away. That's another problem to be solved and probably will end up involving publishers cooperating with each other to make access easier in each other's local regions. This is already a thing for modern games too (where a publisher acts as distributor for another publisher, often without being explicitly named).
    Been screwed too many times trying to cooperate with publishers. To the point that i have not found anyone serious enough to put their money where their mouth is.

    They all want exclusivity in regions and later never come through on minimum quantities or take forever to pay, or nickel and dime you hard.

    Honestly at this point, I will only work with a publisher like LRG or Strictly Limited ONLY for special editions.

    I rather eat up partial cost of shipping to incentivize international orders!

  14. #104
    Genesis Knight's Avatar
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    Just got my Vixen refund via PayPal.

    Super strange. You miss one date and "shut down your publishing arm"? Okay...

  15. #105
    Mega Driver Hedgehog-in-TrainingWCPO Agent Gryson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sik View Post
    This actually brings me to another issue which is that distribution is hard, and current shipping prices are probably scaring some people away. That's another problem to be solved and probably will end up involving publishers cooperating with each other to make access easier in each other's local regions. This is already a thing for modern games too (where a publisher acts as distributor for another publisher, often without being explicitly named).
    I'm not sure that's necessary in the modern age. Fulfillment services are very easy and cheap to use in most countries around the world now.

    Basically, if you manufacture in Country A but have customers in Countries B, C, and D, then the ideal scenario is to contract with a fulfillment warehouse in each of those countries. Then, you make a single large shipment from Country A to each of Countries B, C, and D. When a customer purchases the game, it is shipped from the nearest warehouse to keep shipping costs down. That is standard procedure nowadays when dealing with a lot of customers in different countries, and is much cheaper than shipping each individual order from Country A. Of course, if you only have 20 customers in each country, then it probably isn't worth it in the end.

    I don't think it really makes sense to involve multiple publishers if it can be avoided (just increases the risk of problems and inconsistencies). That's for small-scale distributions with sales generated entirely online. If you're talking about huge productions, then local publishers can be important for advertising and retail distribution. No retro game developer is near that level, though.

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