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Thread: What if people just appreciated the Saturn for how it actually was?

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    End of line.. Hero of Algol gamevet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SegataS View Post
    It did in consumer appeal. Most people prefer Starfox over Panzer Dragoon and Mario over NiGHTS and OoT over Dark Savior. I'm not saying those are better or worse. Just that they had a wider appeal to the average consumer of the era. If more people saw things for what they were Grandia would be more praised than FFVII.
    That's because Nintendo made a smooth transition from the SNES to the N64. Sega just floundered around for a couple of years with add-ons and sort of neglected the core Genesis audience. Looking at the numbers, the North American console units sold for the SNES and N64 are pretty similar.
    A Black Falcon: no, computer games and video games are NOT the same thing. Video games are on consoles, computer games are on PC. The two kinds of games are different, and have significantly different design styles, distribution methods, and game genre selections. Computer gaming and console (video) gaming are NOT the same thing."



  2. #32
    Mega Driver Hedgehog-in-TrainingWCPO Agent Gryson's Avatar
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    How did Sega neglect the Genesis audience?

    These are the top 10 console titles for the Christmas month of December '94, arguably the last time the 16-bit generation mattered (although things were already bleak at that point:

    Code:
    1   SNES      Donkey Kong Country	 	    $58 	Nintendo	   1,499,645 
    2   GEN 	  Sonic & Knuckles	            $57 	Sega	           402,770 
    3   GEN 	  Madden NFL 95	 		    $57 	EA	           344,017
    4   GEN 	  Mortal Kombat II	 	    $60 	Acclaim	   	309,953
    5   GEN 	  NBA Live 95	 		    $58 	EA	           258,160
    6   GEN 	  The Lion King	 		    $64 	Viacom	   	248,419
    7   GEN 	  NFL 95	 		    $56 	Sega	           247,474
    8   SNES	 Aladdin	 		    $21 	Capcom	   	238,774	
    9   GEN 	  Mighty Morphin' Power Rangers	    $53 	Sega	           228,449
    10 SNES 	  Madden NFL 95	 		    $57 	EA	           210,224
    Total games sold (in top 10):
    Genesis: 2,039,242
    SNES: 1,948,643

    Total hardware units sold:
    Genesis: 1,191,414
    SNES: 1,052,087

    People get so caught up on how well DKC sold, but Genesis was still holding its own against Nintendo. Hell, #8 on that list is a SNES budget title that came out in 1993.

    As has always been the case with Nintendo, people mainly bought their select few first party titles, and third party devs were left with the scraps. That's really where the Genesis shone.

    And, with those top selling Genesis titles in mind, it's easy to see what happened to the Saturn... If your user base is largely buying sports titles, then give them sports titles. The Saturn library was just so off the mark for the Genesis's audience (and the PlayStation was spot on).


    https://www.neogaf.com/threads/class...evised.116454/

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    Neglected the core audience, as in, not bring out the sports titles at the launch of the Saturn. The effort they put behind developing FMV games for Sega CD, and developing games for the 32X took away from having games ready for the Saturn launch, and keeping a supply of 1st party games for the Genesis from 1995 to 1996. The 32-bit era really didn't catch fire until late 1996 and Sega of America didn't have good titles developed for the Saturn's Western audience.
    Last edited by gamevet; 04-11-2019 at 09:52 PM.
    A Black Falcon: no, computer games and video games are NOT the same thing. Video games are on consoles, computer games are on PC. The two kinds of games are different, and have significantly different design styles, distribution methods, and game genre selections. Computer gaming and console (video) gaming are NOT the same thing."



  4. #34
    Raging in the Streets Team Andromeda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gryson View Post

    As has always been the case with Nintendo, people mainly bought their select few first party titles, and third party devs were left with the scraps. That's really where the Genesis shone.
    Yep even on the flop that was the Wii U, Nintendo games sold in huge numbers with the likes of Mario Kart 8 selling over 8 million copies and some 6 for Mario 3D world, Its a picture repeated on the N64 and all Nintendo systems.
    Also, people forget that the Snes launched 2 years later too. SEGA was still making AAA In-House software for the Mega Drive in 1995, some 7 years after the Mega Drive 1st shipped. One can't really say the same for Nintendo on the Snes.

    Speaking on Sonic and SOJ. It was an utter cock-up by SEGA Japan to have the Japanese Sonic Team wasting their time with Knuckles: Chaotix. That team should have been charged and put to work on Saturn Sonic 3D, with help from rest of Sonic Team working who were working on NiGHTS, much like it was having the CS team working on 32X Virtual Racing, when SEGA Japan could have had a totally brilliant version of Virtual Racing on the Saturn very early in, given the talent that was the CS team at the time.

    Also why did SEGA Japan think it was good not to have Revenge of Death Adder not on the Saturn, to help with early launch software, the game looked and played incredible at the time. The Saturn version could have been perfect and also supported the game 4 player mode via Multi Tap too.
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    The Future Is Yesterday Hedgehog-in-TrainingRaging in the Streets SegataS's Avatar
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    I'm not here to continue the trend on this forum to dogpile on the N64. N64 has its place in history and some great games. Saturn may not have had some of the industry shaking games that were considered revolutionizing a genre or the industry. Everything the Saturn is and was and to this day appeals to me more. Everything it did I like more than even Genesis. Something about how music sounded on those games. The weird but only SEGA would ideas. Ideas so out of the left field. It wasn't the most popular console of its era but it was the most creative console to me. Creatively I think in every facet it took the most risks and yeah it made it more flawed at the time but kind of ahead of its time as well(then again that is SEGA in a nutshell). Some out of SEGA stubbornness. It was bold either way. I think of the Saturn sometimes as an artist not appreciated in their time but after death people marveled the art. Saturn now makes it on many best of all times consoles. Still not as much appreciation as it might deserve. I don't say this because of a SEGA forum. I honestly mean it when I say. Saturn is my fave console from its generation and confession time I didn't own one back then. I played PS1 and N64. Thought they were great but only Saturn makes me giddy and happy in a way that only 90s SEGA ever could.


    This post is 5 months late. It's just on my mind now.



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    HNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNG Raging in the Streets Moirai's Avatar
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    Again i find the saturn section to be virtually dead outside of discussions about why sega failed. Does anyone actually regularly play their saturn on a regular basis? Lmao

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    AKA Mister Xiado WCPO Agent Raijin Z's Avatar
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    I don't touch my Saturn because I don't want to kill the laser diode. Ain't got the scratch for an ODE for it, and my awful job kinda' made absolutely everything in life unappealing to me. So, three strikes. Four, if you count my Youtube invisibility.
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    Raging in the Streets goldenband's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moirai View Post
    Again i find the saturn section to be virtually dead outside of discussions about why sega failed. Does anyone actually regularly play their saturn on a regular basis? Lmao
    I go through phases with different consoles. I've been craving a good Saturn session lately, though -- maybe I'll play Shellshock or something.

    I was enjoying Ghen War a few years ago but the autosave bullshit and awkward platforming took the wind out of my sails. I also did a Virtual Hydlide playthrough last year.

    And yeah, I do appreciate the Saturn for what it is. I like the way its scaling sprites and 3D environments look like Sega arcade games from the late 1980s/early 1990s. I don't need it to be more like a PlayStation; I have a PlayStation for that.

    I also played a Saturn long before I ever played a PS1, so like a baby bird, I imprinted on the Saturn's aesthetics for better or worse. (But only very slightly, I didn't do much 3D gaming before the 2000s anyway.)

  9. #39
    End of line.. Hero of Algol gamevet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moirai View Post
    Again i find the saturn section to be virtually dead outside of discussions about why sega failed. Does anyone actually regularly play their saturn on a regular basis? Lmao
    Like all of my old consoles, I'll pull it out and play a few of my favorite titles, and it might be a couple of hours, or it might be for the majority of my free time on the weekend. One thing is for sure, every time I get an itch to play the Saturn, Sega Rally is getting played.

    Quote Originally Posted by Raijin Z View Post
    I don't touch my Saturn because I don't want to kill the laser diode. Ain't got the scratch for an ODE for it, and my awful job kinda' made absolutely everything in life unappealing to me. So, three strikes. Four, if you count my Youtube invisibility.
    You'd have to play it an awful lot for that to happen. One time I'd thought that my North American launch Saturn had a dying laser, but it turned out that the rails just needed a little greasing.
    A Black Falcon: no, computer games and video games are NOT the same thing. Video games are on consoles, computer games are on PC. The two kinds of games are different, and have significantly different design styles, distribution methods, and game genre selections. Computer gaming and console (video) gaming are NOT the same thing."



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    The Future Is Yesterday Hedgehog-in-TrainingRaging in the Streets SegataS's Avatar
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    I'm more liberal with it. I sometimes put in a game OST CD play it while I read 90s gaming magazines.



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    HNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNG Raging in the Streets Moirai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gamevet View Post
    Like all of my old consoles, I'll pull it out and play a few of my favorite titles, and it might be a couple of hours, or it might be for the majority of my free time on the weekend. One thing is for sure, every time I get an itch to play the Saturn, Sega Rally is getting played.



    You'd have to play it an awful lot for that to happen. One time I'd thought that my North American launch Saturn had a dying laser, but it turned out that the rails just needed a little greasing.
    not to mention replacement lasers are still available

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    End of line.. Hero of Algol gamevet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moirai View Post
    not to mention replacement lasers are still available
    I believe that as long as you are keeping the lens clean and aren't using a modded console to play cheap burned discs, that the laser lens should be quite durable.
    A Black Falcon: no, computer games and video games are NOT the same thing. Video games are on consoles, computer games are on PC. The two kinds of games are different, and have significantly different design styles, distribution methods, and game genre selections. Computer gaming and console (video) gaming are NOT the same thing."



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    AKA Mister Xiado WCPO Agent Raijin Z's Avatar
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    The diode will fail regardless. Lubrication keeps the mechanical parts alive, but you really should acquire replacement laser assemblies for your systems. I think that replacing my Goldstar 3DO's laser was a traumatic event, in spite of it being a trouble-free success.
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    End of line.. Hero of Algol gamevet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raijin Z View Post
    The diode will fail regardless. Lubrication keeps the mechanical parts alive, but you really should acquire replacement laser assemblies for your systems. I think that replacing my Goldstar 3DO's laser was a traumatic event, in spite of it being a trouble-free success.
    Yes, they will fail over time, but keeping your discs clean, as well as the lens, will ensure a longer life for the diode. Also, a clean power source is a must. I have all of my electronics connected through a UPS, to ensure a clean delivery of power, without risks of power surges that could damage key components of electronic hardware. I've seen network switches connected through fiber connections last for 10 years of 24/7 use, which is way beyond anything a video game console experiences.

    This article does a good job of covering the failure of a laser diode.

    https://www.electronics-notes.com/ar...eliability.php

    Laser diode reliability and lifetime basics
    There are a number of factors which affect the overall laser diode lifetime. While a catastrophic failure is one of the more obvious laser diode failure modes, it is also found that laser diodes degrade over time.

    It is found that the forward current which does not contribute to the light generation causes the light emission characteristics to change. One aspect of this is that it takes more current to produce the same level of light. In many circumstances the laser diode life as the time when rises to a given value to attain the same light value - some have defined this as 1.2 times the initial value. This value may be chosen because there is a limit on any automatic power control circuitry in the equipment.

    One of the key factors with the ageing process within laser diodes is the operating temperature. The degradation speed rises exponentially with the operating temperature.

    Laser diode catastrophic optical damage, COD
    Surge currents in laser diodes can lead to the rapid failure. It is found that in laser diodes that if the current is raised to increase the output optical power, a point is reached where the output power suddenly falls away and irreversible damage is entailed. This form of failure is known as Catastrophic Optical Damage, COD.

    COD occurs when high output levels cause a short melting of part of the laser diode edge. At this point crystal defects form.

    The very nature of laser diodes makes them susceptible to damage. Many operate at very high speeds - often in excess of 1GHz and in addition to this they are low voltage devices - around 2 volts. The combination of these two factors means that they are very susceptible to dame by surges.

    In order to prevent the possibility of COD, it is necessary to protect the laser diode from surges. Turn on of general supply surges can provide short lived spikes that can easily damage the laser diode and cause failure.

    It is also found that even if the laser diode is not completely destroyed by a surge because it may not be of sufficient magnitude to completely destroy the device, a general deterioration may be caused, causing a shortening of the life. Accordingly it is necessary to run laser diodes well within their ratings to ensure their lifetime is maintained.
    A Black Falcon: no, computer games and video games are NOT the same thing. Video games are on consoles, computer games are on PC. The two kinds of games are different, and have significantly different design styles, distribution methods, and game genre selections. Computer gaming and console (video) gaming are NOT the same thing."



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