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Thread: Saturn vs. PlayStation tech - Question

  1. #31
    End of line.. Hero of Algol gamevet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Team Andromeda View Post
    3D and polygons were also becoming a factor in home systems, even in the early design for the Saturn, the main reason for the switch from the NEC CPU to the SH-2 CPU was because that CPU handled a 3D world better, then you had the 3D boats in the Jag and 3do, even on the Mega Drive and Snes you had 3D polygons starting to make an impact with VR and Star Fox. I feel at the time it was just so expensive to give your system decent 3D maths than could handle polygons and there was also still a decent size market for 2D style games. What SONY did so well was to go all out for 3D at a very competitive price and that people were ready to move on and pay that little extra for it. Mind you my 1st ever 16-bit system (well other than the Intellivision lol) was the Atari ST and I remember getting that to play F29 Retaliator (which me and my uncle loved) in 89 and a host of other 3D polygon games and I also remember Geoff Crammond Grand Prix 1 and II turning heads with his polygon engines at the time; sadly you needed a mighty and expensive PC to get the best out of the games .

    Not sure in the USA, but in Pal land, there were lots of games and gfx demo's using polygons on the Amiga and ST.
    We had all of those 3D games here. There was 4D boxing, A-10 Tank Killer, F1 Grand Prix, Out of this World, F-117 Stealth Bomber and F/A-18, just to name a few.
    A Black Falcon: no, computer games and video games are NOT the same thing. Video games are on consoles, computer games are on PC. The two kinds of games are different, and have significantly different design styles, distribution methods, and game genre selections. Computer gaming and console (video) gaming are NOT the same thing."



  2. #32
    Raging in the Streets Team Andromeda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gamevet View Post
    We had all of those 3D games here. There was 4D boxing, A-10 Tank Killer, F1 Grand Prix, Out of this World, F-117 Stealth Bomber and F/A-18, just to name a few.
    Like I said I never really knew.I didn't want to come across as arrogant or condensing, but back in those days I never read or cared much for how gaming was in the USA and so never really had any grasp on how big Amiga or ST gaming was in the USA.
    All I can say was in the late 80's and every early 90's 3D polygons was a big deal on the Amiga and ST overhere in Pal land

    I don't know about you, but I was so hyped when I saw that the Saturn had Daytona USA and Virtua Fighter. And those were the 1st two games I'd played on the console. All of Sega's arcade games after Virtua Racing were 3D
    Playing VF on my Import Saturn way back in November 25th 1994 was and still remains the most incredible launch game experience I had (for a systems domestic day 1 launch). It wasn't just how that game blew away all other 3D games on any home system (short lived I know) it was for the 1st time in the home, I saw and was playing a game that moved as good as Jackie Chan (the animation was incredible) and the sound was just amazing, not just the stunning CD music, but those bone-crushing sound effects making full use of the Saturn sound chip (to sound better than the Arcade game). Daytona USA was a crushing letdown and disappointment (in Gfx terms) it might have played ace, but it looked and run like crap and should never have been rushed out like that... All that said it made AM#2, after the flack they took over Saturn Daytona USA, they just went into overdrive, mega Blast processing and started to push the Saturn to insane levels and showed the world the Saturn High Res mode off, for the 1st time.
    Last edited by Team Andromeda; 05-14-2019 at 09:30 AM.
    Panzer Dragoon Zwei is
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    Presented for your pleasure

  3. #33
    End of line.. Hero of Algol gamevet's Avatar
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    Imagine playing Virtua Fighter and Daytona in surround sound. Thatís what I did in May of 1995.

    I loved Daytona, despite its frame-rate. It was still better than any racer on the 16-bit consoles.
    A Black Falcon: no, computer games and video games are NOT the same thing. Video games are on consoles, computer games are on PC. The two kinds of games are different, and have significantly different design styles, distribution methods, and game genre selections. Computer gaming and console (video) gaming are NOT the same thing."



  4. #34
    Mega Driven Raging in the Streets cleeg's Avatar
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    The thing I like best, looking retrospectively, is that the era of consoles being unique was still alive and kicking with the generation in question.

    By the time of the PS3 / 360 days each system was basically the same (discounting Nintendo, obvs). It's nice as a collector and enthusiast to see the differences in terms of strengths and weaknesses in each system.

    Back at the time though, it was disappointing to see the Saturn's shortcomings, as you typically had one console or another; it's only now that you can own both systems and cherrypick your way through the libraries to get thd most out of each console.

    I still like the Saturn most!

  5. #35
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    I had the good fortune of owning all 3 consoles during their prime. It was the last era where Iíd own the big 3 (had Genesis, TG-16 and SNES before) and did not get a Wii during the 360/PS3 era. Each system offered something that the other couldnít, though I feel the N64 was really hampered by carts and the lack of a sound chip.
    A Black Falcon: no, computer games and video games are NOT the same thing. Video games are on consoles, computer games are on PC. The two kinds of games are different, and have significantly different design styles, distribution methods, and game genre selections. Computer gaming and console (video) gaming are NOT the same thing."



  6. #36
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    The best Saturn games easily stand up to the best Playstation games. IMO, Last Bronx is the best looking Saturn fighting game, and I think it has better overall visuals than Tekken 3 (though Tekken 3's character models may be slightly better). I also think the 3D level in Sonic Jam looks as good as any Playstation 3D platformer.

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    Raging in the Streets Team Andromeda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by redsox2013 View Post
    Last Bronx is the best looking Saturn fighting game, and I think it has better overall visuals than Tekken 3 (though Tekken 3's character models may be slightly better).
    I quite agree and also unlike Tekken 3 its running at a higher screen res, can handle more than one scaling background, features motion blur and is also a conversion of a far more powerful coin up board and it came out eailer too. One can only imagine how far the likes of Treasure and SEGA could have pushed the Saturn, if it had a life span like the PS and games. Out and out 3D games the PS games looked better and when I played games like MGS I would think to myself, this would have been a nightmare to do on the Saturn, but when developers combined the Saturn fab 2D, with its decent 3D and then harnessed the VDP2 was when the Saturn could outclass both the PS and N64.
    Panzer Dragoon Zwei is
    one of the best 3D shooting games available
    Presented for your pleasure

  8. #38
    Raging in the Streets Team Andromeda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gamevet View Post
    Imagine playing Virtua Fighter and Daytona in surround sound. Thatís what I did in May of 1995.

    I loved Daytona, despite its frame-rate. It was still better than any racer on the 16-bit consoles.
    At that time, My TV didn't support surround sound and also the way it handled a Japanse NTSC signal, meant I had to use Scart socket, as only the TV Scart sockets accepted a Japanese NTSC signal (otherwise it be in black and white) and the lack of separate audio jacks on the Saturn, meant I couldn't hook it up to my Hi-Fi. Thankfully in 1996 not only did I get a new TV, but also I bought a Scart selector box, that had its own audio jacks. It's a shame mind, so little of SEGA in-house games supported surround sound on both the Saturn and DC.

    But like I said VF looked amazing back in November 1994. Those polygons even blew away PC games and the animation was like it was taken from Jackie Chan's Snake In the Eagles shadow, infact I'm convinced Lau in VF, was based on Jung-Lee Hwang character in the film
    Panzer Dragoon Zwei is
    one of the best 3D shooting games available
    Presented for your pleasure

  9. #39
    End of line.. Hero of Algol gamevet's Avatar
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    I had Pro-Logic in 1993. Hearing Jackyís round house kick go around the room was amazing. Just the way everything sounded was on another level.
    Last edited by gamevet; 05-15-2019 at 06:38 PM.
    A Black Falcon: no, computer games and video games are NOT the same thing. Video games are on consoles, computer games are on PC. The two kinds of games are different, and have significantly different design styles, distribution methods, and game genre selections. Computer gaming and console (video) gaming are NOT the same thing."



  10. #40
    Raging in the Streets Blades's Avatar
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    I wonder what we would've gotten if Sega's talent was applied to PSX quality hardware. Probably a stranglehold on the video game market by Sega and a Sega Jupiter instead of the Playstation 4 lol.

    There was no doubt at the time, even at Sony, that the industry's best artistic talent (Nagoshi, Suzuki, Naka, Futatsugi, etc.) were all at Sega.

  11. #41
    Mega Driven Raging in the Streets cleeg's Avatar
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    Saturn has surround capability? Which games, I thought it was a stereo only affair?

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    Quote Originally Posted by cleeg View Post
    Saturn has surround capability? Which games, I thought it was a stereo only affair?
    Mostly the EA Saturn games had surround sound on Saturn, so did the likes of Croc.
    Panzer Dragoon Zwei is
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    Presented for your pleasure

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blades View Post
    I wonder what we would've gotten if Sega's talent was applied to PSX quality hardware. Probably a stranglehold on the video game market by Sega and a Sega Jupiter instead of the Playstation 4 lol.

    There was no doubt at the time, even at Sony, that the industry's best artistic talent (Nagoshi, Suzuki, Naka, Futatsugi, etc.) were all at Sega.
    I dobut it. Many said that with SEGA on the PS 2 and it never happned, I was quite shocked at how reiabylty poor VF 4 and Evo sold on it . SEGA Japan DNA seemed to be with developing on its own Hardware and that's when it teams did their best.
    SEGA have never been the same since they went 3rd party, other some magic on the OG Xbox and the odd brilliant title here and there.

    I think the big screw up SEGA did was getting rid of its UGA and Smilebit studios, they should have been kept separate. I understand money was a huge issue, but the mergers of the teams could have been handled and done far better
    Panzer Dragoon Zwei is
    one of the best 3D shooting games available
    Presented for your pleasure

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by cleeg View Post
    Saturn has surround capability? Which games, I thought it was a stereo only affair?
    It's Dolby Surround. Basically, a mono surround channel with a maximum frequency of 7KHz is added into the stereo signal with it's phase shifted 90į on the left channel and -90į on the right. This could be done in software, or I suppose specific pre-encoded audio files could have been used specifically for surround effects.

    At the time of the Saturn's life, the best Dolby surround decoders were Pro Logic ones, which could take an encoded stereo signal and produce left, right, centre, and surround channels from it. Pro Logic II enabled stereo surround channels as well as front left, right, and centre to be decoded from a stereo signal, but that didn't come until after the Saturn was dead.

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by cleeg View Post
    Saturn has surround capability? Which games, I thought it was a stereo only affair?
    Dolby Sound, which was also used on the SNES Star Wars games.Other tricks could be used to enhance a sound effect to give the illusion of surround on a Pro-Logic system. I donít know if the PlayStation version of DOOM used Dolby Sound, but I share myself when Iíd heard a grunt coming from behind me.
    A Black Falcon: no, computer games and video games are NOT the same thing. Video games are on consoles, computer games are on PC. The two kinds of games are different, and have significantly different design styles, distribution methods, and game genre selections. Computer gaming and console (video) gaming are NOT the same thing."



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