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Thread: Why did Sega fail? A look at the 32X, Saturn and Dreamcast.

  1. #16
    ESWAT Veteran Team Andromeda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gamevet View Post
    Panzer Dragoon Orta would have looked like ass on the PS2.
    It would have looked different. That's what happens when you sign up a 3rd party and it develops a system around your hardware. If Nintendo had signed up Treasure then Gunstar Heroes would have been a very different game, or if SONY got them in the 32bit days then Guardian Heroes would have looked different. If SEGA had got Square in the 16 bit or 32-bit era, then the FF would have looked a sounded different Ect
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    Quote Originally Posted by SegataS View Post
    I'm honestly not sure I can see Final Fantasy VIII or IX on Saturn. FFIX was pushing PS1 pretty hard. Vagrant Story was another. Esp Metal Gear Solid. MGS was one of the most impressive looking games of its generation.
    Vagrant Story was impressive, Metal Gear not really in my opinion (after all it was 2,5D game for 90% of the time).
    Don't forget Shenmue Saturn, that was on a another level compared to MGS and many last gen PSX games.

    What Saturn lacked wasn't horse power, was just marketing and success.

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    The Future Is Yesterday Hedgehog-in-TrainingRaging in the Streets SegataS's Avatar
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    MGS was in no way 2.5D. Full 3D characters in full 3D environments. Top-down mostly sure but that's not 2.5D. It also shifted to the third person at times. Shenmue Saturn was never released so we don't know how well or poorly it ran. We have no idea how it was optimized, just a target video. What we saw was impressive but you can't compare it to released games.



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    AKA Mister Xiado Master of Shinobi Raijin Z's Avatar
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    Sega being stupid with development kits and information resources did nothing to prevent Sony from caving the competitions' collective head in with the PlayStation. I hate Sony more than most (software) companies, but credit where it's due. They didn't leave development houses in a lurch.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raijin Z View Post
    I hate Sony more than most (software) companies, but credit where it's due. They didn't leave development houses in a lurch.
    No, They would just leave that until the PS 3
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    Quote Originally Posted by SegataS View Post
    MGS was in no way 2.5D. Full 3D characters in full 3D environments. Top-down mostly sure but that's not 2.5D. It also shifted to the third person at times. Shenmue Saturn was never released so we don't know how well or poorly it ran. We have no idea how it was optimized, just a target video. What we saw was impressive but you can't compare it to released games.
    Probably was a little unfair to call MGS 2.5D, but it has 2Dish gameplay just like the original two Metal Gear on MSX.
    Sure it's easier for hardware to handle a game that has a top down view for the majority of the time, VS handling a game with a third person free camera (like Burning Rangers, PD Saga on Shenmue Saturn).


    That said the comparison is totally unfair, you're taking for example games that were released at the end of PSX life cycle (1998/2000), with developers that were able to use any kind of tricks to achieve results that were virtually not possible on the PSX, while the Saturn was already discontinued and never had the same chance.

    The only glimpse we had of a late generation Saturn game, was the Shenmue Saturn video, (that wasn't a target video, it was demo running on real hardware like AM2 said), and it showed many things that we don't see even in later PSX games, like real faces and impressive facial animations (MGS had plain polygon faces with no animations, just saying).

    If Saturn was a successful console, third party games like FF8, MGS or Vagrant Story would have been possible on the console.

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    SITE SUPERVILLAIN Outrunner Vector's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SegataS View Post
    It's doubtful it sells more than NES or SNES classic. NES Classic sold close to 4 million and SNES classic just over 5 million. SEGA would be thrilled if they reached half that. 2-3 million is closer to its ceiling IMO. No doubt it will sell better than the TG16 Mini and PS1 Classic. TG16 just wasn't as popular. PS1 classic was just a disaster.
    Friendly bet then. I say the Genesis mini outsells Nes mini by end Dec 2019/Early 2020 worldwide. I say 4.5 million ish.
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    Several of the bad decisions were simply risks that didn't work out. The video also correctly points out that financially Sony was a behemoth that SEGA couldn't compete with. I've always maintained that even with clairvoyance, SEGA was not going to survive SONY's barrage.

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    Raging in the Streets Blades's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Virtua Hunter View Post
    The only glimpse we had of a late generation Saturn game, was the Shenmue Saturn video.
    Saga looks better than Shenmue Saturn IMO.

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    SITE SUPERVILLAIN Outrunner Vector's Avatar
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    It didn't fail really. They released consoles from 1983 to 2001 then took a break and are making consoles (mini anyway) again =) Master System did good almost everywhere except USA, Genesis did great and took on NES and SNES and others and sold just shy of 7 million compared to SNES when all was said and done (maybe more if all 20 variants are added in), Game Gear did ok, Sega CD sold 3 million and was highest selling add on ever before Kinect, 32X sold 600,000 mostly in USA in just 1 or 2 months =0, Saturn did good everywhere except USA (still sold 10 million right?) and Dreamcast is beloved worldwide. They did great in 80s and 90s in Arcades and became a great 3rd Party. Maybe one day they will come back again. Here endth the lesson.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vector View Post
    It didn't fail really. They released consoles from 1983 to 2001 then took a break and are making consoles (mini anyway) again =) Master System did good almost everywhere except USA, Genesis did great and took on NES and SNES and others and sold just shy of 7 million compared to SNES when all was said and done (maybe more if all 20 variants are added in), Game Gear did ok, Sega CD sold 3 million and was highest selling add on ever before Kinect, 32X sold 600,000 mostly in USA in just 1 or 2 months =0, Saturn did good everywhere except USA (still sold 10 million right?) and Dreamcast is beloved worldwide. They did great in 80s and 90s in Arcades and became a great 3rd Party. Maybe one day they will come back again. Here endth the lesson.
    I'm almost certain that the Saturn sold better in North America, than it did in Europe.
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  12. #27
    The Future Is Yesterday Hedgehog-in-TrainingRaging in the Streets SegataS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vector View Post
    It didn't fail really. They released consoles from 1983 to 2001 then took a break and are making consoles (mini anyway) again =) Master System did good almost everywhere except USA, Genesis did great and took on NES and SNES and others and sold just shy of 7 million compared to SNES when all was said and done (maybe more if all 20 variants are added in), Game Gear did ok, Sega CD sold 3 million and was highest selling add on ever before Kinect, 32X sold 600,000 mostly in USA in just 1 or 2 months =0, Saturn did good everywhere except USA (still sold 10 million right?) and Dreamcast is beloved worldwide. They did great in 80s and 90s in Arcades and became a great 3rd Party. Maybe one day they will come back again. Here endth the lesson.
    Saturn sold 9 million and that's pathetic. Wii U and Vita for example which are colossal failures sold 13 and 14 million. SEGA no doubt failed when they were bankrupt in 2001. Sammy basically saved them (Okawa's donation just kept their head above water for a period) PS5 will be if not the last one of the last traditional consoles. Physical media is gone after that. A mini doesn't count nor does the Tectoy SMS in Brazil.



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    Quote Originally Posted by Blades View Post
    Saga looks better than Shenmue Saturn IMO.
    This would be an interesting topic
    Saga is impressive for many reasons, but it's a little too rough around the edge (no pun intended ) in my opinion.
    While they are different games, Shenmue Saturn seemed more refined, in any case:






    Shenmue Saturn seemed to use detailed 3D models at the same levels of fighting games (VF2, etc.)
    enviroments seems more detailed too, it would've been probably the best 3D game of the 32bit era if released.
    Attached Images Attached Images

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    Quote Originally Posted by SegataS View Post
    Saturn sold 9 million and that's pathetic. Wii U and Vita for example which are colossal failures sold 13 and 14 million. SEGA no doubt failed when they were bankrupt in 2001. Sammy basically saved them (Okawa's donation just kept their head above water for a period)
    I'm pretty sure Sega was already out of the red before Sammy arrived.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Virtua Hunter View Post
    I'm pretty sure Sega was already out of the red before Sammy arrived.
    SEGA did get back into the red in 2002 thanks to Virtual Fighter IV in the Arcades, which I'm sure still holds the record for a SEGA coin up in Japan for sales revenue. But the trouble was SEGA had a huge debt mountain and CSK selling it's controlling stake, left SEGA wide open to takeover's
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