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Thread: games that look bigger (in storage size) than they are

  1. #16
    Master of Shinobi
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    Quote Originally Posted by axel View Post
    There's also a ton of text in three languages, I wonder how much space that used up.
    given that there were two different reprints with different languages on them and given that it would have been cheaper/simpler for them to just put all the languages in there, we can safely assume that it takes quite an amount of space.
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    Quote Originally Posted by chilled View Post
    given that there were two different reprints with different languages on them and given that it would have been cheaper/simpler for them to just put all the languages in there, we can safely assume that it takes quite an amount of space.
    That's exactly what I was thinking. Back in the day a lot of games would store text without any compression. For Pier Solar though I'd be surprised if they didn't at least use arithmetic coding or something LZ-based.

  3. #18
    Raging in the Streets Sik's Avatar
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    Considering that Zebbe just said that the game doesn't attempt to even use metatiles for the maps? (like, one of the most basic forms of saving space when building maps, working with chunks larger than 8×8px) I'd imagine the text is completely uncompressed.

  4. #19
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    So Pier Solar just used the same marketing strategy as SNK, "even more MEGA POWER" etc by not compressing anything inside their roms? I mean, some Neo Geo games are 10 times bigger than Pier Solar and they surely don't look 10 times bigger.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sik View Post
    Considering that Zebbe just said that the game doesn't attempt to even use metatiles for the maps? (like, one of the most basic forms of saving space when building maps, working with chunks larger than 8×8px) I'd imagine the text is completely uncompressed.
    I just looked through with a hex editor and I can't see most of the text... there are a few strings though e.g.:

    "SEGA MEGA DRIVE (c)T574 2010.OCTPIER SOLAR™&THE GREAT ARCHITECTS© WaterMelon™ PIER SOLAR™&THE GREAT ARCHITECTS© WaterMelon™"

    "DevelopedAandApublishedAbyAAAAAAAAWaterMelonAcorp orationVAAAARespect our +6 years of hard work, please do not dump, copy | hack this ROM.Please remind that this game was sold without any benefits, do not waste those efforts.Thank you!"

    I own a real copy so hopefully it's OK.

  6. #21
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    We did work with 16x16 pixel tiles, which are small blocks/stamps I guess, but considering other games use much bigger ones I think lots of space could have been saved.
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    Raging in the Streets Team Andromeda's Avatar
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    I was always amazed that Sonic and Revenge of Shinobi were on a 4 MEG Cart's given the quality of the gfx and sound on offer
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    Hedgehog-in-Training Hedgehog-in-TrainingRoad Rasher
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    Quote Originally Posted by axel View Post
    That's exactly what I was thinking. Back in the day a lot of games would store text without any compression. For Pier Solar though I'd be surprised if they didn't at least use arithmetic coding or something LZ-based.
    Arithmetic coding is far too slow, and the faster version of it that current compressors use wasn't invented yet.
    The faster versions may not be viable either due to RAM needs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by roce View Post
    Arithmetic coding is far too slow, and the faster version of it that current compressors use wasn't invented yet.
    The faster versions may not be viable either due to RAM needs.
    That's what I'm saying, I'd expect a game like PS takes advantage of modern techniques that older games couldn't use, also some of the compression algorithms were under patent back in the day. Since I can't see all the text in a hex editor it appears to have some kind of encoding but you're right it's not easy with limited RAM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Team Andromeda View Post
    I was always amazed that Sonic and Revenge of Shinobi were on a 4 MEG Cart's given the quality of the gfx and sound on offer
    I had forgotten Sonic 1 is only a 4 Meg cart, it might be one of the most impressive 4 Meg games ever made! According to Sega Retro it's using three types of compression, I know SR is not always accurate but this looks plausible to me:

    16x16 block mappings and special stage layouts - Enigma Compression, based on RLE
    256x256 block mappings - Kosinski compression, LZSS-based
    Graphics - Nemesis Compression, LZ77-based

    https://segaretro.org/Enigma_compression
    https://segaretro.org/Nemesis_compression
    https://segaretro.org/Kosinski_compression

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    Hedgehog-in-Training Hedgehog-in-TrainingWildside Expert nihilblack's Avatar
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    Oh, man, I'm trying to learn C so later I can learn to use the SGDK and try to make a Mega Drive game, but all of this sounds like witchcraft to me

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    Quote Originally Posted by nihilblack View Post
    Oh, man, I'm trying to learn C so later I can learn to use the SGDK and try to make a Mega Drive game, but all of this sounds like witchcraft to me
    Don't worry about it dude, concentrate on the stuff you are able to do and you'll be surprised later at just how much you've picked up.
    Also, I know this is (mostly) C++, but a lot of the stuff covered here actually starts off with plain C. Its how I got back into programming and I'm fairly sure he notifies the viewers when the tutorials move from C to C++.


    Now, relating to the thread, aren't most games padded? Most games show up on my HD as being exactly one meg or exactly a half meg but I'm pretty sure they have to be padded for that to happen. Anyway, Flashback looks huge (mostly because of the animations) but from what I remember its a one meg game, very impressive how much was put on the cartridge.
    Last edited by Mad Moham; 07-10-2019 at 11:34 AM.
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  13. #28
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    Sonic: wasn't the SEGA scream taking like 1/4th of the rom? So the game would be 3 MEG without that?
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  14. #29
    Raging in the Streets Sik's Avatar
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    More like 1/8 I think, but mind you, they slapped that in after they had to cut a feature due to time constraints and hence its space got freed up at last minute.

    And yeah, games have to be padded, but by general rule they're nearly full (turns out that developers generally cram in everything they can in the available space and some stuff gets the cut), so in practice the padding is a handful of KB at most.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nihilblack View Post
    Oh, man, I'm trying to learn C so later I can learn to use the SGDK and try to make a Mega Drive game, but all of this sounds like witchcraft to me
    With modern hardware this kind of low level compression is becoming a lost art. Most impressive example I have seen lately is Micro Mages. But if you aren't putting your game on a cart maybe it's not necessary, with the Mega SD a game could now be 400 GB. I think it will be great, developers can concentrate on the game itself rather than how it will fit in limited ROM.

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