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Thread: What prevents the Dreamcast from being my favourite console

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    Raging in the Streets Yharnamresident's Avatar
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    Default What prevents the Dreamcast from being my favourite console

    The title says it all, the Dreamcast would be my favourite console if it weren't for these 2 elements. I find them both to be very braindead decisions, but they could've been corrected if the Dreamcast had a relaunch in 2001/2002. I've mentioned these before in a couple threads, but I decided to make a dedicated thread for them.

    1. Severely limited and outdated controller

    -You may or may not have noticed this, but the Dreamcast controller actually has less buttons than the SNES controller. Thats really bizarre for a 6th-gen console, and also considering they had 6 face buttons with the Saturn. Theres many games that would've benefited from a controller with more buttons, especially the Shenmue games. Which brings us to our next point:

    -The controller only has 1 analog stick. Its not elegant that you gotta control Ryu using a d-pad. And also with FPS games that were starting to rise on consoles, a second analog stick would've been a huge benefit. Like the N64 also has 1 analog stick, but it has C buttons which were intended for camera control. The Dreamcast controller has nothing dedicated and designed for camera control.

    -The cord comes out the button. This should've been avoided at all costs. Its strange they didn't come up with a better solution, and resorted to this design choice.

    2. Insanely small memory card space

    -The VMUs hold 128KBs of space. This is a 5th-gen amount of space. I know the reason the space is so small is because the VMU has alot of other stuff built into it, but they should've also released plain memory cards with 2-4 MBs of space. Theres tons of games that will use up an entire VMU. I know they released that 4x Memory Card, but thats not the same thing, thats 4 memory cards in 1, you have to manually(by hand) switch between the 4 memory card banks.


    So yes I do think theres a couple flaws with the Dreamcast hardware, however I don't think theres anything wrong with the main console itself. It has a very aesthetic design, much better than a purple lunchbox or a huge black and lime green slab. Oh yes, the console laser is pretty loud but thats a more minor thing, and could've been corrected with a model revision, similar to what we saw with Genesis model 1 vs model 2.

    Theres a lot of debate about the Dreamcast controller, so let me know if you disagree with what I've said.
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    The Gaming Gangsta Master of Shinobi profholt82's Avatar
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    I'll forgive them for only using one analog stick as the idea of using 2 sticks to control a character in a 3d space wasn't being executed properly even in playstation games at that time which used dual sticks. The idea of camera control was still a new and novel concept at that time and was usually executed sloppily.

    But it really bothered me that Sega dropped the 6 face buttons. I still don't understand that decision at all. Especially considering how popular fighting games had been on the Saturn. Perhaps they figured they could sell more arcade stick controllers to fighting game fans that way. They should have stuck with their original instincts and used the Saturn 3D controller as a template.

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    AKA Mister Xiado Master of Shinobi Raijin Z's Avatar
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    Try playing a game that makes active use of the triggers for more than 20 minutes. For this reason, both the Dreamcast pad, and the Gamecube pad, are fucking terrible. RSI inside. Retrofighters (a dumb name if ever I heard one) is making a new controller (read: the same controller they always make, with a few things moved around) for the Dreamcast, but it remains to be seen if this controller won't blow out the controller board like all of the other 3rd party pads seemed to do.
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    Hedgehog-in-Training Hedgehog-in-TrainingWildside Expert Virtua Hunter's Avatar
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    I'm fine with 1 analogue stick, 2 wasn't really necessary at the time.
    While I never understood why choose 4 face button like snes and PSX, instead of 6 button that was the trademark of Sega.
    In any case the pad was very good, way better than any nintendo or sony pad that really give me cramps (not joking).

    The two defects that prevent Dreamcast from being the favourite console are:

    1-The color: never liked white consoles, and the yellowing is something that drive me nuts. Why Dreamcast can't be standard black?

    2-Weak optical laser: it should normally be the strongest part of a console. Instead Dreamcast laser is probably the worst of every console.
    Last edited by Virtua Hunter; 08-11-2019 at 12:15 PM.

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    End of line.. Hero of Algol gamevet's Avatar
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    I hate the dpad on the DC controller. That's why I have an Agetec arcade stick.

    It would have been cool, if Sega released a Stunner gun in the West for the DC. I have 2 different 3rd party light guns (neither of them work all that great) and I can't even use them for Confidential Mission. I can't get them to calibrate properly with my 27" Sony Wega.
    Last edited by gamevet; 08-11-2019 at 06:12 PM.
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    Mega Driven Raging in the Streets cleeg's Avatar
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    I agree with the OP regarding the buttons and do find the MC space a bit annoying also. I'm not sure the two sticks thing is that fair though, based on what other people have said and the wire out the bottom never ever bothers me and I can't understand why some people get mega wound up about it.

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    The Future Is Yesterday Hedgehog-in-TrainingRaging in the Streets SegataS's Avatar
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    Love the controller but it would have been nice with 2 sticks and 2 extra face buttons and still keep the triggers. The wire was never an issue for me. Tho I wish everyone did what Xbox did that generation. Wire detaches itself to prevent the console crashing to the floor. Memory card management of that era was bad in general. I honestly feel like it's even worse now with PS4. I have to manage HDD space and when I want to put the disc in aside form long install times...the game won't work if I don't have optional DLC installed. So I have to go to PSN website sift through years of downloads to find the DLC to queue it up for my PS4. Then again I have a lot of games for PS4. So managing Gamecube and Dreamcast memory card limits seems not so bad anymore.



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    End of line.. Hero of Algol gamevet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SegataS View Post
    Love the controller but it would have been nice with 2 sticks and 2 extra face buttons and still keep the triggers. The wire was never an issue for me. Tho I wish everyone did what Xbox did that generation. Wire detaches itself to prevent the console crashing to the floor. Memory card management of that era was bad in general. I honestly feel like it's even worse now with PS4. I have to manage HDD space and when I want to put the disc in aside form long install times...the game won't work if I don't have optional DLC installed. So I have to go to PSN website sift through years of downloads to find the DLC to queue it up for my PS4. Then again I have a lot of games for PS4. So managing Gamecube and Dreamcast memory card limits seems not so bad anymore.
    I had issues with storage space on my PS4 and was erasing older games to make more room for newer games. Now, I have a 2 TB external HDD that I got for $60 at Walmart. All of my new content goes on that drive.

    You forget how bad it was on the PS3, though. I just recently got an older Slim and wanted to install Gran Turismo 6. I have pretty fast internet, but for some reason the game took over 6 hours to install all of its files. My launch model PS3 probably would have caught on fire after 6 hours.
    A Black Falcon: no, computer games and video games are NOT the same thing. Video games are on consoles, computer games are on PC. The two kinds of games are different, and have significantly different design styles, distribution methods, and game genre selections. Computer gaming and console (video) gaming are NOT the same thing."



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    The Future Is Yesterday Hedgehog-in-TrainingRaging in the Streets SegataS's Avatar
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    Yeah, I have a 1TB external but I need to get a 3 or 4TB. This is how bad it is. I'm now afraid to uninstall some games. Nier Automata esp. I wanted to play it some today to I installed it. I even did the thing of installing the DLC separate. Annoying but sure, fine. DLC would not show up in the game. This is a bug that has been there since LAUNCH. I uninstall everything. Re-install the game and DLC. Nope. I delete my save data locally and then reinstall. Nope. So how did I get it back? I uninstalled everything. Deleted the save data. Reinstalled just the game, not the DLC. Started a new game. Played for about an hour or so til I got to a certain story part. Bought an in-game item. Then installed the DLC. Close the game. Opened the game. DLC was there but not my save data from before. So I close the game. Download my data from the cloud. Open the game and finally, the DLC works. So from 4 PM to 7:45 How long all of that took me and yet you're right still shorter than a PS3 install. God, I hope we can dump installs next-gen but have a feeling they will be worse when 180GB is the new norm.


    Last edited by SegataS; 08-11-2019 at 11:39 PM.



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    Raging in the Streets Yharnamresident's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by profholt82 View Post
    I'll forgive them for only using one analog stick as the idea of using 2 sticks to control a character in a 3d space wasn't being executed properly even in playstation games at that time which used dual sticks. The idea of camera control was still a new and novel concept at that time and was usually executed sloppily.
    But even Mario 64 in 1996, you can use the C buttons for camera control.

    A lot of Dreamcast games use the triggers for camera control, but thats not elegant because you can only control the camera left vs right, and also the triggers usually would've been better utilized for other purposes in the game.

    Quote Originally Posted by SegataS View Post
    Love the controller but it would have been nice with 2 sticks and 2 extra face buttons and still keep the triggers.
    Thats all that was necessary, it would've been a perfect controller if that was the case.

    Quote Originally Posted by SegataS View Post
    Memory card management of that era was bad in general.
    The PS2 had 8 MB memory cards, thats like 60x the space of Dreamcast VMUs. I don't think theres a single PS2 game that takes up an entire memory card, which is the case with a lot of Dreamcast games.


    But like I said, both of these issues could have been easily corrected. The input manager inside the Dreamcast is able to recognize 2 analog sticks and 6 face buttons, so they could've released a redesigned controller. And they could've updated the Dreamcast BIOS to allow memory cards higher than 128KBs.
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    ESWAT Veteran Team Andromeda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gamevet View Post

    It would have been cool, if Sega released a Stunner gun in the West for the DC.
    SEGA did in Europe, but I guess with cash low and various court actions against gaming corps, SOA didn't want to risk any by brining out its official light gun in the USA. Shame too as the Gun is the best light gun ever, it looks super cool, the D-Pad at the back a touch of genius and I loved how you could put in the Rumble back in the unit for recoil.

    The Dreamcast pad wasn't too bad, but the lack of 6 face buttons really hurt it. I used to use the six buttons for movement and then the analogue pad in Duke and Quake on the 3D pad and that really should have been the case on the DC, but SEGA Japan did silly focus tests and the causal gamers said they were too many buttons and they got confused and so it was cut to 4 face buttons...

    Anyhow... What I feel SEGA could have done better with the DC is I didn't like the lack of focus on Arcade ports by SOJ , Really SEGA should have been looking to make almost every Model 2 and Model 3 game for the Dreamcast. The lack of Jurassic Park (The Lost World) and Dayonta USA II, Spike Out was really disappointing. I have no idea why SEGA didn't have the World Wide Soccer team make a direct sequel for the DC (after the brilliant WWS 97/98) why SEGA looked to treat Camelot so horribly and not have them make Shining Force IV for DC, much less see Lobotomy go bankrupt (instead of making them a In-House team) and having that team handle the Half-Life port; If that port wasn't so badly handled and came out early in DC's life, I feel it could have got great sales myself

    But the most disappointing for all ... was to release SEGA Rally II in such a rushed and unfinished state; That game needed to be the showcase for the system, show off the GFX of the DC (Model 3 Step 2 perfection), show off the online side of the DC with Online play, internet rankings and being able to download and upload ghost times and replays Ect (the kind of options one saw in VO II and Buggy Heat) To get SEGA's driving crown back from SONY Instead, we got a lovely game, but one that could and should have been so much better, to make matters worse SEGA GT wasn't really any better.

    That for me was the big issue on the DC SEGA wise. SEGA never made Football game like WWS 98 on the Saturn, or an In-House racing game that could touch SEGA Rally and not having Camelot make a new Shining game or letting Lobotomy gone down was BIG mistakes for me
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    HNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNG Raging in the Streets Moirai's Avatar
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    The existence of the Sega Saturn and motherfuckin TURBOGRAFX-16 prevent anything else from being my favorite console

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    The Future Is Yesterday Hedgehog-in-TrainingRaging in the Streets SegataS's Avatar
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    MDK2 on Dreamcast I hated for the controls. That game needed a second analog stick if I remember right.



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    End of line.. Hero of Algol gamevet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moirai View Post
    The existence of the Sega Saturn and motherfuckin TURBOGRAFX-16 prevent anything else from being my favorite console
    Well.....you had me on the 1st half.
    A Black Falcon: no, computer games and video games are NOT the same thing. Video games are on consoles, computer games are on PC. The two kinds of games are different, and have significantly different design styles, distribution methods, and game genre selections. Computer gaming and console (video) gaming are NOT the same thing."



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    Death Bringer Raging in the Streets Black_Tiger's Avatar
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    I like the Dreamcast as it is. I never had a problem with the stock controller for games that were made for it.

    EB sold Saturn pad adapters cheap while the DC was current, so it already had the best 2D and street fighting controller and they also sold Playstation adapters.
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    everyone knows nintendo is far way cooler than sega just face it nintendo has more better games and originals

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