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Thread: @Sega: fix the Mega Drive Mini sound delay or riot!

  1. #121
    Shining Hero Joe Redifer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Centrale View Post
    Okay buddy. Try white balancing your camera some time and then talk about excellence.
    LOL touché! The problem with that room is that it's green screen, but I have new bulbs now that will help. You probably won't notice the difference until the GameBoy Advance episode comes out though. BTW it wasn't a white balance issue. Camera was set to the same exact white balance it has been at for YEARS in that room.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sega-Jorge
    The product will be as good as possible within Sega's budget.
    The NES Classic had this same issue... and issue they fix with the SNES Classic that uses the same exact hardware as the NES Classic. M2 took notice of my video and started asking questions and saying weird things. It's a software issue. Also Sega's budget on this thing is HUGE. Advertising cost way more than R&D on this thing. They're doing things like sending people mini Sega CD, 32X and Sonic carts. They don't really need to do that. Those cost a lot to design, mold and manufacture. They have money to blow.

  2. #122
    Road Rasher
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    M2 contacted you, what weird things did they say??! Im still hoping sega does the right thing and update the firmware through usb key like the atgames and c64 mini consoles, and get M2 to fix audio delay (at least make it better), scaling and input lag. Everyone seems pissed that we are critical about it, if atgames would have released it everybody would be mad, but because its sega we are supposed to ignore issues... ok

  3. #123
    OPN2 in DNA Hedgehog-in-TrainingRoad Rasher Peeteris's Avatar
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    Pathetic.
    Everyone forgets that licensing the games for this thing costs at least 2x more than licensing games for Nintendo mini's.
    Businesses want to earn money. With a device of a cost 80$, 40$ of full price probably goes to game licensing, 25$ for a cssing and hardware that is probably just as powerful as a first smartphone, 5$ for other expenses, 5$ for M2 and 5$ for SEGA themselves?
    Think about that.

  4. #124
    Hedgehog-in-Training Hedgehog-in-TrainingWildside Expert Virtua Hunter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SEGA-Jorge View Post
    The barely noticeable shortcomings will be fodder that elite 4th gen console enthusiasts outline ad nauseum in an effort to be the most knowledgeable person in the room/car/discord channel/subreddit thread. It's just the natural result of this stuff. If it wasn't the sound, it would be the sluggishness, or the filter options, or the game selection, or some other nonsense.

    No one wants the mini to be perfect. If it was, what would we do with these stacks of games, variant consoles, boxes of controllers, and backup CRT's? I mean, someone think about the 15+ year old, $250 PVM's... Won't someone, anyone, please think about the PVM's?!?!?

    Seriously though, watch, when it's perfect sound, graphic, and interaction emulation, at an inexpensive price point, you'll get the hardware enthusiast crowd regurgitating the gaming equivalent of vinyl/audiophile's, "It just sounds warmer". No one, except the people that didn't start collecting early/have the disposable income to buy physical copies of original games, wants these little consoles to be perfect. They just like to complain about stuff. Myself included.

    This kinda has me thinking about the tradeoffs... What about the other things these emulators do? Form factor, convenience, overall price/financial investment? I mean, the library, extensibility, (You know what I'm talking about!) HD output, filters, Save States, etc. I mean, do these things kinda balance things out? I'm sure for some people, slightly inaccurate sound emulation is a small price to pay, considering some of those same people might play on a non-ideal console version, or on PC emulation, or on normal hardware through an expensive video setup. When I think of my investment, in both time, money, and effort, retro gaming on original hardware on a CRT is expensive and time consuming as hell. I could see why these newer enthusiasts would be more than happy to bypass some of that heartache and just get to the games... Not everyone can notice the sound quality differences between HDG model 1's and Model 2's... And even less can tell the difference between a VA2 and a VA6.5. That kinda stuff only matters to the smallest, smallest subset of an already niche group.
    I don't know, probably I'm the only one here but since it's an official Sega console this time, I wanted the MD Mini to be the same as the original hardware, to have a sort of modern substitute since the original hardware is becoming old.
    This was the best chance to have a brand new official mega drive built by Sega in 2019.

    Unfortunately after they soon declared that the cart slot was fake and confirmed the size, I understood that this wasn't the substitute I was looking for, it was just a collectible thing for old and newer fans, nothing more nothing less.

    That said, MD Mini is aimed to both new and old audience, and Sega aimed to quality (that's why they abandoned Atgames in favour of M2, why making all this effort if "people just don't care"?).
    It's just a letdown to see that despite M2 involvement, the MD Mini has just the same technichal shortcoming of Nes Mini (that is globally a piece of junk).

    And since Sega is pouring money in marketing department, even for useless things (I see people on twitter received free Genesis tower, also with packaging customized for US etc. and it's not a retail product, it's just a VIP item), well especially when I see these things, I cannot believe that money was a problem here.
    It's more M2 shortcomings, and these issues are all things that could've been avoided with a better work on their part, without changing hardware.


    There is literally no reason for Sega to invest the money/research into building in support for old software they can't sell/make money off anymore. They are in the business of making money, not building good will.

    There was no reason for Atgames too, still all their consoles has carts support.
    There is a huge retro-market, I can only see all the missing opportunities (example new official Sega carts to reprint old games).

    Just look at the fake carts, at TGS they were all sold out despite being just pricey tiny plastic...
    Last edited by Virtua Hunter; 09-17-2019 at 07:01 AM.

  5. #125
    Raging in the Streets Sik's Avatar
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    Why would anybody expect a mini to have support for cartridges when the whole definition of a mini is that it's a plug'n'play system with a closed collection of games? The only thing that differentiates the minis from other plug'n'plays is that they're actually shaped after the console they represent (but smaller… unless it's the PCE, which was already mini-sized for starters).

    I mean, it's not like Sega ever tried to hide what it was (if anything, I'm more surprised that they stuck with the term Mini outside Japan).

  6. #126
    Shining Hero Joe Redifer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PreZZ View Post
    M2 contacted you, what weird things did they say??!
    They didn't contact me directly. They just started mumbling about it on Twitter when someone pointed my video out to them. Basically something to the effect of how the videos were edited poorly (mine and My Life in Gaming's) but I don't think that's exactly what they meant, as the videos were edited just fine. I think they just didn't understand it or something. It was weird because I didn't know WTF they were saying either. It almost felt like they were trying to say I was full of shit and they were denying that there was an issue, but that's only my gut feeling as their English wasn't very good. But facts are facts, there IS a sound delay.

    Oh by the way, my Genesis Mini shipped with a non-working controller. But then again Sega can only do so much with their budget, right guys? GUYZ?

    The reason nobody really harped on Nintendo as much for the NES Classic is maybe because Nintendo sent no one a unit to look at before it was released. So anyone talking about the delay would be lost is the sea of "HEY LOOK I CAN PLAYZ MARIO AND OMG LOOOOOK ITS SO SMALL AND LOOK AT HAS MARIO 3 AS WELL OMG!" One of two things will happen... Sega will stop sending review units before launch day (or at all) or they will try harder.

  7. #127
    ESWAT Veteran Team Andromeda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Redifer View Post
    Oh by the way, my Genesis Mini shipped with a non-working controller. But then again Sega can only do so much with their budget, right guys? GUYZ?
    I'm sure SEGA would hide behind, Faults with hardware represents less than 2% of the manufacturing out. Which is what console manufacturers like to hide behind
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  8. #128
    Mega Driver Hedgehog-in-TrainingWCPO Agent Gryson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Redifer View Post
    They didn't contact me directly. They just started mumbling about it on Twitter when someone pointed my video out to them. Basically something to the effect of how the videos were edited poorly (mine and My Life in Gaming's) but I don't think that's exactly what they meant, as the videos were edited just fine. I think they just didn't understand it or something. It was weird because I didn't know WTF they were saying either. It almost felt like they were trying to say I was full of shit and they were denying that there was an issue, but that's only my gut feeling as their English wasn't very good. But facts are facts, there IS a sound delay.

    Oh by the way, my Genesis Mini shipped with a non-working controller. But then again Sega can only do so much with their budget, right guys? GUYZ?

    The reason nobody really harped on Nintendo as much for the NES Classic is maybe because Nintendo sent no one a unit to look at before it was released. So anyone talking about the delay would be lost is the sea of "HEY LOOK I CAN PLAYZ MARIO AND OMG LOOOOOK ITS SO SMALL AND LOOK AT HAS MARIO 3 AS WELL OMG!" One of two things will happen... Sega will stop sending review units before launch day (or at all) or they will try harder.
    So would you pay $80 for the Genesis Mini if it did not have the audio lag and broken controller?

    The reason I ask is because you are a hardware purist. What does this Mini console offer you?

    Even without the audio lag, all of these mini consoles (including the SNES Classic) have input lag higher than the original hardware. I mean, I feel like this whole debacle could have gone the same way if, instead of the audio lag, you had shown a slow-motion video of yourself pushing the controller button and have 7 frames of input lag before the character responded on screen. Twitter would be going crazy: "Input lag? Hard pass! M2, you disappoint me!"

    Yes, I can't deny that the audio lag disappoints, but I'm just trying to understand why just about no other reviews (from non-hardware purists) found fault with the audio.

  9. #129
    For great justice! Outrunner Tor Landeel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gryson View Post
    Yes, I can't deny that the audio lag disappoints, but I'm just trying to understand why just about no other reviews (from non-hardware purists) found fault with the audio.
    Actually, this was mentioned on basically any professional review, including Digital Foundry's.
    Not only audio lag, but also unfaithful sound emulation.
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  10. #130
    Mega Driver Hedgehog-in-TrainingWCPO Agent Gryson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tor Landeel View Post
    Actually, this was mentioned on basically any professional review, including Digital Foundry's.
    Not only audio lag, but also unfaithful sound emulation.
    It was mentioned in I think three Youtube reviews from hardware purists (I don't use that in a negative way - I consider these reviews more informed).

    It was not mentioned in dozens of reviews from other professional video game journalists.

  11. #131
    Road Rasher
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    if they can't hear how badly the Comix Zone track is, then they certainly aren't professionals.

  12. #132
    Mega Driver Hedgehog-in-TrainingWCPO Agent Gryson's Avatar
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    "Professional" means they make a living doing it, not that they're good at it.

  13. #133
    Road Rasher
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    Professional is also a way to do things, even more if you're pretending to do it for a living.
    Someone pretending to be a professional and not catching this obvious stuff shouldn't be treated nor trusted as such.

  14. #134
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    I own a mega sg, genesis 1-2, xeye, cdx, and a rpi3 with blast 16 and a megapi case. Of course i wasn’t expecting perfect emulation like the sg, but coming from M2 something on par with blast 16, and from what i saw it’s definitely not. I preordered a while ago and was excited for it (still am), emulation is still a great way to experience old consoles, im playing more with my pi3 recently than the mega sg! Once you play sega cd with save states there is no going back, so much more convenient!! So yeah im not an elitist prick (at least imo!) i just want the best product and feel like they dropped the ball here, I dont care if nes classic had same issues its not relevant to the fact that audio delay is almost a deal breaker

  15. #135
    Mega Driver Hedgehog-in-TrainingWCPO Agent Gryson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PreZZ View Post
    I own a mega sg, genesis 1-2, xeye, cdx, and a rpi3 with blast 16 and a megapi case. Of course i wasn’t expecting perfect emulation like the sg, but coming from M2 something on par with blast 16, and from what i saw it’s definitely not. I preordered a while ago and was excited for it (still am), emulation is still a great way to experience old consoles, im playing more with my pi3 recently than the mega sg! Once you play sega cd with save states there is no going back, so much more convenient!! So yeah im not an elitist prick (at least imo!) i just want the best product and feel like they dropped the ball here, I dont care if nes classic had same issues its not relevant to the fact that audio delay is almost a deal breaker
    But are you running stock Retroarch on your RPi (Blast 16 is just a frontend for Retroarch)? Because that has quite bad input lag (8-9 frames IIRC). You have to turn on the lag reduction features, but that can cause problems with games.

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