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Thread: @Sega: fix the Mega Drive Mini sound delay or riot!

  1. #166
    ESWAT Veteran Team Andromeda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Redifer View Post
    *sound lag.
    Is the lag between when a button is pressed to the sound coming and action coming through to the TV as bad on a CRT TV compared to a LCD, when using a Mini . I really don't use my CRT much these days and play all my old consoles via the Framemister .I know that's got built in lag and that my LG Oled (2018 model) got lag even in game mode , but I really don't notice it enough for it to be an issue
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  2. #167
    Toejam is a wiener. Master of Shinobi SEGA-Jorge's Avatar
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    I imagine there will be some level of input lag, just due to playing on a LCD/LED/4k tv. Game Mode settings don't tend to eliminate all of that lag. This would mostly be noticeable to people that play on CRT more regularly. I don't really know if that a minority, or majority of players. Personally, I only play on CRT. So my experience my be different than that of someone that plays on a Mega SG, or original hardware via Framemeister, or via emulation. I'm excited to give this mini a shot, and see how it fares. I imagine it won't be enough lag/audio lag to really cause an issue.

  3. #168
    Raging in the Streets Sik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CrossBow View Post
    Darius doesn't seem to have any lag at all but then it was coded for debut on the mini so it doesn't really surprise me there.
    Just to make it clear: it was still debugged on real hardware despite that.

    …you know, do we have any consistent measurements across all games? I wonder if there's lag coming from communication with the sound driver (which would be indeed an emulation issue if so). We aren't going to know for sure if some minis have the lag fixed or not unless we're comparing the same games.

  4. #169
    Mega Driver Hedgehog-in-TrainingMaster of Shinobi Gryson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CrossBow View Post
    Well..after playing on my Mini last night what I've found is that there is audio lag. But not in all the games. As an example, Megaman seem to have a tiny bit of audio lag, but the Sonic games and gunstar heroes did not. Castlevania bloodlines only seems to have audio lag on some parts of it. An example is that the whip and explosion sounds for the most part seem to be correct, but there is a noticeable delay when you jump from ledges and land on the ledge below. That thud sound is definitely late to the game. No idea why only that one stands out so much. I also noticed that some of the instrumentation seems wrong or just sounds different in a few places. ToeJam and Earl is one example on the music that stuck out to me. I also think there is a big of controller lag as well but that too seems to vary from game to game so it could be more to do with the games themselves. Darius doesn't seem to have any lag at all but then it was coded for debut on the mini so it doesn't really surprise me there.

    It really seems to vary from game to game on the mini in regards to what seems right and what doesn't in the audio lag and some input lag. At least in my case. Now I do have the Mini going into my receiver and then to my TV as all of my HDMI systems are so that might be affecting what I'm experiencing but for the most part, it is an old receiver that is about 10 years old so it doesn't do any other processing and is passthru on HDMI inputs.
    Could you record some video? The only way to really know is to check it frame-by-frame.

    In the past day, I've been surprised by how many people are convinced that there is audio lag until you slow things down and clearly show them it's not there. Not saying that's the case with you (I trust your judgment a lot more), but our minds can deceive us.

  5. #170
    Mega Driver Hedgehog-in-TrainingMaster of Shinobi Gryson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sik View Post
    Just to make it clear: it was still debugged on real hardware despite that.

    …you know, do we have any consistent measurements across all games? I wonder if there's lag coming from communication with the sound driver (which would be indeed an emulation issue if so). We aren't going to know for sure if some minis have the lag fixed or not unless we're comparing the same games.
    I was using Mega Man's shot sound, which is the one that DF demonstrated. I found at least three Genesis Minis on Youtube where it was fixed, and two where it wasn't.

    Honestly, the lag is so obvious on it that you can tell pretty quickly when it's there.

  6. #171
    Shining Hero Joe Redifer's Avatar
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    Sega confirmed to me that all of the US units come from the same lot. There have been no new batches. They can't say if Japan made any more or not. All I can say is I can't trust a unit without testing it myself. If I come across any other Genesis Mini units, I'll test them.

    And no, it's not from button-press-to-sound. It's from onscreen action to sound. So basically that means if I record a game, the sound is out of sync (late). It has nothing to do with the display.

  7. #172
    Road Rasher Jadty's Avatar
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    I know it would be absolutely niche, and they would probably never invest the money, but I assume that patching with a dedicated program (Windows PC -> Micro USB on the Mini) could get rid of some of the issues, and even add improvements like a better CRT filter, more video options, etc. If hackers can tinker with the console through this port, why not use this as a means to officially improve the console after launch? I assume there would be no easy way to communicate this to their customers without investing even more money, and even so, less than 1% of them would even care about it.

  8. #173
    Mega Driver Hedgehog-in-TrainingMaster of Shinobi Gryson's Avatar
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    I wouldn't put much faith in what Sega says. I imagine they want to avoid addressing this issue quite badly.

    Here is a further video comparing the Game Sack example with a no-audio-lag example taken from a random Youtube livestream of a North American Genesis Mini (not a JP version):



    It's a 60fps video so watch it on Youtube for best quality.

    And I didn't cherry-pick that video. I literally went to Youtube, searched for "Genesis Mini" and filtered for today, and it was one of the first few up.

    About half of the videos I've checked have lag, and half do not.
    Last edited by Gryson; 09-20-2019 at 10:28 PM.

  9. #174
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    I tested my system today, and i got to this first boss joe was talking about in castle of illusion, and there is no audio lag like he had. When i first played the game and jumped i thought there was massive audio lag, but i checked and even on real hardware when mickey jumps the sound effect is quite late! Sega needs to come out clean on the situation or release a firmware update, i guess they want to avoid customers returning their unit

  10. #175
    Shining Hero Joe Redifer's Avatar
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    I can't trust any system I don't test myself.

    Actually I take that back. I'd also trust Coury or Digital Foundry's results.

  11. #176
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    You know you don't have to be a frequent YouTuber to be smart or correct... you don't have to only listen to info from Youtubers either.

    But I agree, between Coury, John and you... I'd trust John and Coury the most.

  12. #177
    Mega Driver Hedgehog-in-TrainingMaster of Shinobi Gryson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PreZZ View Post
    I tested my system today, and i got to this first boss joe was talking about in castle of illusion, and there is no audio lag like he had. When i first played the game and jumped i thought there was massive audio lag, but i checked and even on real hardware when mickey jumps the sound effect is quite late! Sega needs to come out clean on the situation or release a firmware update, i guess they want to avoid customers returning their unit
    Good to hear. Where did you buy yours?

    And I've noticed in videos so many people who are convinced that their Genesis Minis have audio lag, even though they often don't. In the video I used in that last example, the guy even says something like, "There is some audio lag when Mickey jumps, but not when he hits enemies."

    Certain games / sound effects make it seem like there is some lag, but that's how they were made. Sonic's jump, for example, is a bit deceptive. It's a long sound effect that starts low in pitch and peaks quite a bit after he leaves the ground. So it can feel like there's a delay, but when you check it on real hardware, that's just how it is.

  13. #178
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gryson View Post
    Good to hear. Where did you buy yours?

    And I've noticed in videos so many people who are convinced that their Genesis Minis have audio lag, even though they often don't. In the video I used in that last example, the guy even says something like, "There is some audio lag when Mickey jumps, but not when he hits enemies."

    Certain games / sound effects make it seem like there is some lag, but that's how they were made. Sonic's jump, for example, is a bit deceptive. It's a long sound effect that starts low in pitch and peaks quite a bit after he leaves the ground. So it can feel like there's a delay, but when you check it on real hardware, that's just how it is.
    I bought mine on amazon.ca, i could send my console to joe for testing.

  14. #179
    Raging in the Streets Sik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gryson View Post
    Sonic's jump, for example, is a bit deceptive. It's a long sound effect that starts low in pitch and peaks quite a bit after he leaves the ground. So it can feel like there's a delay, but when you check it on real hardware, that's just how it is.
    That one is even more deceptive, I was looking at its SMPS stream (was thinking of documenting Sonic sound effects) and it turns out the pitch slide upwards only starts in a handful of frames after the actual note has started. Weird stuff to learn.

  15. #180
    Hedgehog-in-Training Hedgehog-in-TrainingSports Talker Centrale's Avatar
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    During the livestream of the launch day event at Sega Japan, they revealed a hidden 43rd game (on the Japanese Mega Drive, naturally): Kiss Shot.

    Via Siliconera: "On the stream, a 43rd game that can only be accessed via a hidden code was revealed – Kiss Shot, a snooker game released by Sega in 1992. The game is only available on the Japanese Mega Drive Mini, by pressing A+B+C and Start while inside Game no Kanzume Otokuyou."
    Last edited by Centrale; 09-21-2019 at 02:12 PM.

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