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Thread: @Sega: fix the Mega Drive Mini sound delay or riot!

  1. #256
    Hedgehog-in-Training Hedgehog-in-TrainingRoad Rasher Stifu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SEGA-Jorge View Post
    I was going to say, RPi totally has some lag, from my experience.
    Yes, but I'm under the impression it's not nearly as bad as in those Mega Man or Mickey videos I've seen. I'll double check.

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    Raging in the Streets Sik's Avatar
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    I'd like to say it's the TVs as some of them are so crappy that they still add lag even with game mode (to the point that modern AAA games are designed to try hiding it) but surely that shouldn't apply to videos taken with capture cards?

    I wonder if something is off with the HDMI output.

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    Quote Originally Posted by crazyteknohed View Post
    Nobody knows for sure, but the evidence sure suggests there is a batch issue. My Jp model has zero audio lag, and Iíve seen the Youtube videos that exhibit the phenomena and can categorically tell you my unit does not suffer the same lag.

    Based on the number of complaints in this thread, perhaps Iím the lucky few not to have a dodgy unit.

    Perhaps we should start a thread where we list region, serial number and a pre-defined set of games/sound effects to test? Maybe we can identify the units that are affected by audio lag this way?
    Guys there's definitely something strange here.
    Today I tested again my MD mini on the occasion of a friend visit, and there was ZERO lag! We spent quite some time playing games but I couldn't hear the lag anymore, and the first time it was so easy definitely there! So why's it different this time?
    Well, I used another USB power supply, made by Sony with more than 1.5A..could it be the culprit, since it's the only component the user needs to add?
    Maybe it underclocks when it's not provided enough juice?
    I'll resume my testing tomorrow, but please if you have the lag try the best power adapter you got, and report!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sik View Post
    I'd like to say it's the TVs as some of them are so crappy that they still add lag even with game mode (to the point that modern AAA games are designed to try hiding it) but surely that shouldn't apply to videos taken with capture cards?

    I wonder if something is off with the HDMI output.
    I doubt it matters, but I think all of the people who actually measured frame-by-frame were running the HDMI output through an analog converter of some sort. RetroRGB is the only one who explicitly said he verified that the conversion added 0 audio lag.

    I have seen the ~8 frames of audio lag in person, but the evidence that some people have less is strong IMO (such as RetroRGB).

    Quote Originally Posted by Tor Landeel View Post
    Guys there's definitely something strange here.
    Today I tested again my MD mini on the occasion of a friend visit, and there was ZERO lag! We spent quite some time playing games but I couldn't hear the lag anymore, and the first time it was so easy definitely there! So why's it different this time?
    Well, I used another USB power supply, made by Sony with more than 1.5A..could it be the culprit, since it's the only component the user needs to add?
    Maybe it underclocks when it's not provided enough juice?
    I'll resume my testing tomorrow, but please if you have the lag try the best power adapter you got, and report!
    That would be very strange if true. Not doubting you but the human brain is not always the most accurate perceiver.

    If possible please record a video to test it (just film the TV screen). If you don't have software that can step frame-by-frame, then upload it to Youtube and I'll check for you. A 60 fps video would be best (most smart phones can do that now), but 30 fps will be OK.

  5. #260
    The Gentleman Thief Baloo's Avatar
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    My Genesis mini also has a bit of controller delay that I've noticed...plus the graphics look positively awful upscaled. How did they make things look so bad through HDMI while the SNES Classic looks amazing in comparison?

    I'm just waiting for Project Lunar to come and fix everything at this point.
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    For great justice! Outrunner Tor Landeel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gryson View Post
    That would be very strange if true. Not doubting you but the human brain is not always the most accurate perceiver.

    If possible please record a video to test it (just film the TV screen). If you don't have software that can step frame-by-frame, then upload it to Youtube and I'll check for you. A 60 fps video would be best (most smart phones can do that now), but 30 fps will be OK.
    Well, I'm normally very sensitive to these matters but empirical proof speaks for itself. I can do 60fps, so I'll test several power bricks and report as soon as I can.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tor Landeel View Post
    Well, I used another USB power supply, made by Sony with more than 1.5A..could it be the culprit, since it's the only component the user needs to add?
    Maybe it underclocks when it's not provided enough juice?
    That sounds like a pretty good lead to me. This is actually a common problem with Raspberry Pis.

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    Hm, with my rpi the power supply not being enough did not result in underclocking, but usb bus drops or reboots.

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    I definitely noticed more input lag with the MD Mini when the cable was connected to the laptop rather than the brick used for the mega sg. The SNES classic didn't have this issue.

  10. #265
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    Unfortunately I couldn't replicate the initial, heavy lag I was having, even by switching different power bricks, though there may be a subtle difference.

    I took some couple of videos, one with the tree boss of Castle of illusion on the mini, and the others Castlevania door opening on CRT (real hardware) and on the mini.
    It may be my impression, but I felt the camera capture lagged a bit compared to audio, so it may not be that accurate for this kind of precision tests.

    Anyway, lag is there but it's not as pronounced as other videos I've seen around, and my TV panel is Sony VA so its response time is not very bad. I guess better panels would also give different results here.
    I recommend downloading and slowing them down using VLC.

    https://1drv.ms/f/s!AnYW1mPiiWP6k41yDiu3NwdioL3ffA
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  11. #266
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    For those who wonder why emulation is so good on nintendo mini consoles:

    The nes mini and snes mini projects were born in a Nintendo subsidiary.

    The two mini consoles were developed at the initiative of this subsidiary which is in love with the technology, with the agreement of Shigeru Miyamoto.

    The main issue during the development was the absolute fidelity of the emulation as an objective ! (because they know today that anyone can make an emulator).

    Indeed, designers have the means to achieve their ambitions: they master skills that have become exceptionally rare (the assembler), they have the secret of the original console sources to adapt the most perfect emulation, they are brilliant by the technical discoveries they are able to make and in addition they are very well paid for it (about fifty engineering brains).

    This indicates that consoles emulating on expensive FPGA processors are only there to compensate for the loss of forgotten know-how.

    Sega's resources and skills are much lower than Nintendo's and this is reflected in the questionable quality of the emulation on the mini md/gs.

    Sega still screwing up to release an unfinished product, is a shame but as long as they can sell the stuff.

    The Lunar project looks really nice, but there is no indication that the original emulator is repairable, which will force the use of an alternative emulator - perhaps - itself far from perfect.

    It's now a brand image issue, Sega has to work on a big update that will please everyone.
    Last edited by Pha; 12-12-2019 at 12:46 PM.
    An innovative game on md/gs ? I vote for.

  12. #267
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pha View Post
    For those who wonder why emulation is so good on nintendo mini consoles:

    The nes mini and snes mini projects were born in a Nintendo subsidiary.

    The two mini consoles were developed at the initiative of this subsidiary which is in love with the technology, with the agreement of Shigeru Miyamoto.

    The main issue during the development was the absolute fidelity of the emulation as an objective ! (because they know today that anyone can make an emulator).

    Indeed, designers have the means to achieve their ambitions: they master skills that have become exceptionally rare (the assembler), they have the secret of the original console sources to adapt the most perfect emulation, they are brilliant by the technical discoveries they are able to make and in addition they are very well paid for it (about fifty engineering brains).

    Sega's resources and skills are much lower than Nintendo's and this is reflected in the questionable quality of the emulation on the mini md/gs.

    Sega still screwing up to release an unfinished product, is a shame but as long as they can sell the stuff.

    The Lunar project looks really nice, but there is no indication that the original emulator is repairable, which will force the use of an alternative emulator - perhaps - itself far from perfect.

    It's now a brand image issue, Sega has to work on a big update that will please everyone.
    What are you even talking about. The NES Classic was plagued by arguably worse input and audio lag.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tor Landeel View Post
    Unfortunately I couldn't replicate the initial, heavy lag I was having, even by switching different power bricks, though there may be a subtle difference.

    I took some couple of videos, one with the tree boss of Castle of illusion on the mini, and the others Castlevania door opening on CRT (real hardware) and on the mini.
    It may be my impression, but I felt the camera capture lagged a bit compared to audio, so it may not be that accurate for this kind of precision tests.

    Anyway, lag is there but it's not as pronounced as other videos I've seen around, and my TV panel is Sony VA so its response time is not very bad. I guess better panels would also give different results here.
    I recommend downloading and slowing them down using VLC.

    https://1drv.ms/f/s!AnYW1mPiiWP6k41yDiu3NwdioL3ffA
    Just checked the Castle of Illusion clip and it has 11 frames of audio lag (i.e., the time that the sound starts is 11 frames after Mickey hits the boss).

    I don't see any reason why your camera would de-sync audio and video. But it's easy enough to check - just tap a knife against a glass or something and see if it's in sync.

  14. #269
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gryson View Post
    What are you even talking about. The NES Classic was plagued by arguably worse input and audio lag.
    so the problem still exists, if that's the case, it's a nightmare.

    Edit :the subsidiary of the minis n on its own website site
    Last edited by Pha; 12-12-2019 at 01:00 PM.
    An innovative game on md/gs ? I vote for.

  15. #270
    Raging in the Streets Sik's Avatar
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    Just to make this clear, isn't the Mega Drive Mini using the Virtual Console emulator? (or a derivative)

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