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Thread: @Sega: fix the Mega Drive Mini sound delay or riot!

  1. #106
    Hedgehog-in-Training Hedgehog-in-TrainingWildside Expert Virtua Hunter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peeteris View Post
    Like, for real, we are the ones who should support SEGA the most.
    This is their FIRST console made by themselves in 20 years, they undoubtedly put a lot of effort in it and we are still complaining.
    If we want to change something, we should contact SEGA, not publicly threw this mini under the bus
    Agree.
    It's the first console made by Sega (even if it's just a mini and it's mainly a collectible thing), Sega fans especially shouldn't pass on this.

    That said, I think both Sega and M2 could've improved emulation, input and audio lag, I don't think it's an hardware limitation (you can make genesis emulation work also on first generation pentium cpus...).

    I also wish the mini carts and the Sega CD fake addon were cheaper and available in every market.

  2. #107
    Road Rasher
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    I expected better from M2, Sega could have paid for the genesis gx emulator and it would have been so much better. I love Sega, i did buy it, but im not giving a feee pass and licking their ass if the system has flaws.

  3. #108
    Toejam is a wiener. Master of Shinobi SEGA-Jorge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PreZZ View Post
    I expected better from M2, Sega could have paid for the genesis gx emulator and it would have been so much better. I love Sega, i did buy it, but im not giving a feee pass and licking their ass if the system has flaws.
    They're only flaws the most diehard fans will notice. Again, licensing this or that emulator, or spending more time/money on audio/visual emulation quality would bite into the bottom line. The reality is that the criticism from the hardcore is just that, criticism from a niche audience who's financial contribution to the overall success of the hardware has minor impact, if any. Then, they buy in anyway. Investing in better hardware was just not financially feasible, or the impact would be negligible. Perhaps that money went into the form factor, package design, and marketing... Which has been, overall, received really well. That's arguably a better investment, if the goal was to get the hardware into as many hands as possible.

    Honestly, I was thinking that the bad opinions and criticism from the enthusiast community would/could impact sales and public perception, but the more I ask people, the more I notice that they actively avoid our types of communities, and it's exactly for reasons like this. The Nintendo community just eats whatever Nintendo serves up, which is good and bad, but the Sega community can come off harsh, and somewhat elitist.

  4. #109
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    The hardware is strong enough to have good emulation, 11 frames late audio is pretty bad imo, if that makes me an elitist than so be it... i believe this thing is stronger than a rpi 3, and that runs genesis emulation flawlessly. Anyway this will get retroarch cores through hacking sooner or later! Ill just be happy to have sega branded usb controllers

  5. #110
    Mega Driver Hedgehog-in-TrainingWCPO Agent Gryson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PreZZ View Post
    The hardware is strong enough to have good emulation, 11 frames late audio is pretty bad imo, if that makes me an elitist than so be it... i believe this thing is stronger than a rpi 3, and that runs genesis emulation flawlessly. Anyway this will get retroarch cores through hacking sooner or later! Ill just be happy to have sega branded usb controllers
    It doesn't have better performance than a RPi3, though. The Mini has similar hardware to the NES/SNES Classic, and that is weaker than a RPi3. That's not really surprising since an RPi3 costs $35 for a completely bare bones unit. The hardware in the Mini probably cost a fraction of that. These Minis are always going to be limited in what they can do since companies have to keep the prices reasonable.

    I find it funny that you're looking forward to Retroarch on this. Retroarch on the SNES Classic has much worse input lag than the stock emulator.

    But in the end, aside from the few diehard Sega reviewers that commented on the audio lag, none of the more mainstream reviewers have even noticed it.

    I think some of the disappointment here comes from unrealistic expectations. If you were expecting this to have zero problems (perfect sound, no input lag, etc.), you were kind of setting yourself up for disappointment. This isn't a machine for purists. It's a decently low-cost emulator box designed for people who want to experience MD games again or introduce them to a new generation. That's what it was always going to be. It has the same issues as the other Mini emulator boxes. The question, though, is Is it good enough? And it sounds like the answer is a big YES for most people.

  6. #111
    Raging in the Streets Sik's Avatar
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    I wonder how much of this backlash is from the fact that people got fed up from AtGames making so much shit and especially related to audio. Anything even remotely slightly wrong with the audio will be treated like worthy of (geek) warfare >_>

    I don't think Sega will have to worry much tho… Hell, they had a gacha with the mini cartridges at TGS and within 13hs it had already sold out (and 13hs was when somebody noticed it and tweeted, may have sold out even earlier).

  7. #112
    Hedgehog-in-Training Hedgehog-in-TrainingWildside Expert Virtua Hunter's Avatar
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    People rarely notice even big things like 30fps vs 60fps etc. so I don't expect them to notice a few frame of audio and input lag. But even if the general public is/will be happy, that doesn't mean that the product don't have flaws that could be avoided with a better work on M2 part (or that could be addressed in future).

    Probably since M2 was involved, we were expecting a nearly flawless experience.
    Personally I was looking forward to a box with a Sega official emulator, native hdmi and ability to use original carts, just like Atgames but finally better, that were my original expectations.

  8. #113
    Toejam is a wiener. Master of Shinobi SEGA-Jorge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Virtua Hunter View Post
    People rarely notice even big things like 30fps vs 60fps etc. so I don't expect them to notice a few frame of audio and input lag. But even if the general public is/will be happy, that doesn't mean that the product don't have flaws that could be avoided with a better work on M2 part (or that could be addressed in future).

    Probably since M2 was involved, we were expecting a nearly flawless experience.
    Personally I was looking forward to a box with a Sega official emulator, native hdmi and ability to use original carts, just like Atgames but finally better, that were my original expectations.
    The barely noticeable shortcomings will be fodder that elite 4th gen console enthusiasts outline ad nauseum in an effort to be the most knowledgeable person in the room/car/discord channel/subreddit thread. It's just the natural result of this stuff. If it wasn't the sound, it would be the sluggishness, or the filter options, or the game selection, or some other nonsense.

    No one wants the mini to be perfect. If it was, what would we do with these stacks of games, variant consoles, boxes of controllers, and backup CRT's? I mean, someone think about the 15+ year old, $250 PVM's... Won't someone, anyone, please think about the PVM's?!?!?

    Seriously though, watch, when it's perfect sound, graphic, and interaction emulation, at an inexpensive price point, you'll get the hardware enthusiast crowd regurgitating the gaming equivalent of vinyl/audiophile's, "It just sounds warmer". No one, except the people that didn't start collecting early/have the disposable income to buy physical copies of original games, wants these little consoles to be perfect. They just like to complain about stuff. Myself included.

    This kinda has me thinking about the tradeoffs... What about the other things these emulators do? Form factor, convenience, overall price/financial investment? I mean, the library, extensibility, (You know what I'm talking about!) HD output, filters, Save States, etc. I mean, do these things kinda balance things out? I'm sure for some people, slightly inaccurate sound emulation is a small price to pay, considering some of those same people might play on a non-ideal console version, or on PC emulation, or on normal hardware through an expensive video setup. When I think of my investment, in both time, money, and effort, retro gaming on original hardware on a CRT is expensive and time consuming as hell. I could see why these newer enthusiasts would be more than happy to bypass some of that heartache and just get to the games... Not everyone can notice the sound quality differences between HDG model 1's and Model 2's... And even less can tell the difference between a VA2 and a VA6.5. That kinda stuff only matters to the smallest, smallest subset of an already niche group.

    Quote Originally Posted by Virtua Hunter View Post
    People rarely notice even big things like 30fps vs 60fps etc. so I don't expect them to notice a few frame of audio and input lag. But even if the general public is/will be happy, that doesn't mean that the product don't have flaws that could be avoided with a better work on M2 part (or that could be addressed in future).

    Probably since M2 was involved, we were expecting a nearly flawless experience.
    Personally I was looking forward to a box with a Sega official emulator, native hdmi and ability to use original carts, just like Atgames but finally better, that were my original expectations.
    There is literally no reason for Sega to invest the money/research into building in support for old software they can't sell/make money off anymore. They are in the business of making money, not building good will.
    Last edited by SEGA-Jorge; 09-16-2019 at 04:41 PM.

  9. #114
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    It seems that some reviewers and (choke) "influencers" in North America have received the cosmetic tower of power expansions with correct North American branding... I really hope that becomes available at retail!

  10. #115
    Shining Hero Joe Redifer's Avatar
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    If y'all accept mediocrity, then companies will never strive for excellence. M2 can no longer be classified as "excellent".

  11. #116
    Mega Driver Hedgehog-in-TrainingWCPO Agent Gryson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Redifer View Post
    If y'all accept mediocrity, then companies will never strive for excellence. M2 can no longer be classified as "excellent".
    What would have made you accept the Mini as an excellent machine?

  12. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Redifer View Post
    If y'all accept mediocrity, then companies will never strive for excellence. M2 can no longer be classified as "excellent".
    Okay buddy. Try white balancing your camera some time and then talk about excellence.

  13. #118
    Toejam is a wiener. Master of Shinobi SEGA-Jorge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Redifer View Post
    If y'all accept mediocrity, then companies will never strive for excellence. M2 can no longer be classified as "excellent".
    I have tons of appreciation for the work you do, but I don't can't agree with this. The product will be as good as possible within Sega's budget. It's kinda a bummer to me that it can be as good as it is, and still get so much criticism. Perfect emulation on a budget is goddamn hard, and all this thread talks about is how easily Sega should have been able to approach it. No one, barring Analog Mega SG, have been able to approach that level of accuracy, and when they did, the price point was too high for most people, and NO ONE is choosing it over a model one through RBG on a PVM.

    It's true what people are bringing up, this same accuracy issue popped up with the NES and SNES, and the gaming media was not nearly as critical.

  14. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by SEGA-Jorge View Post
    They're only flaws the most diehard fans will notice. Again, licensing this or that emulator, or spending more time/money on audio/visual emulation quality would bite into the bottom line. The reality is that the criticism from the hardcore is just that, criticism from a niche audience who's financial contribution to the overall success of the hardware has minor impact, if any. Then, they buy in anyway. Investing in better hardware was just not financially feasible, or the impact would be negligible. Perhaps that money went into the form factor, package design, and marketing... Which has been, overall, received really well. That's arguably a better investment, if the goal was to get the hardware into as many hands as possible.

    Honestly, I was thinking that the bad opinions and criticism from the enthusiast community would/could impact sales and public perception, but the more I ask people, the more I notice that they actively avoid our types of communities, and it's exactly for reasons like this. The Nintendo community just eats whatever Nintendo serves up, which is good and bad, but the Sega community can come off harsh, and somewhat elitist.
    Well said!!!

  15. #120
    Extreme Procrastinator Master of Shinobi Flygon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SEGA-Jorge View Post
    It's true what people are bringing up, this same accuracy issue popped up with the NES and SNES, and the gaming media was not nearly as critical.
    I was curious if they had the same audio buffer length. What do most PC emulators use as a buffer length, anyway?

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