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Thread: 2nd generation console discussion(Intellivision, Colecovision, 2600, Odyssey 2)

  1. #196
    Raging in the Streets Yharnamresident's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by goldenband View Post
    I highlight this to point out that the Intellivision, SG-1000, and ColecoVision don't have multi-color sprites, so that if you see multiple colors in one character, it's because multiple sprites are being combined to make that character.
    But the point is it was constantly done, where as you never saw it with 2nd gen consoles. Its more optimal if its done through hardware support, but thats besides the point.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kamahl View Post
    The RCA Studio 2 has no redeeming qualities. I'm guessing it was the cheapest? The Channel F is better than it in every way, the Studio 2 has no advantages over the Channel F what so ever.
    Yes, a dead-on-arrival piece of junk. The Channel F and 2600 made it die instantly.

    Quote Originally Posted by gamevet View Post
    I'd considered it a huge step up. Just seeing a decent version of Zaxxon on the CV blew my mind.
    I've mainly been playing Super Cobra. The game scrolls super fast, its that Z80 horsepower.
    Certified F-Zero GX fanboy

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    Raging in the Streets Yharnamresident's Avatar
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    Could we get some tech specs on the Intellivision III?

    I like the sounds of that. Atari was the only American company in the 3rd gen, and although the 7800 was a profitable success, I don't think anyone was super amazed by it. The Intellivision III could've been that great American 3rd gen console.
    Certified F-Zero GX fanboy

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    End of line.. Hero of Algol gamevet's Avatar
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    It was supposed to have the same
    CPU clocked @3.5 MHz, 4096 colors, higher resolutions and more ROM. It was considered to be a stepped up Intellivision, until they designed a next gen console.
    A Black Falcon: no, computer games and video games are NOT the same thing. Video games are on consoles, computer games are on PC. The two kinds of games are different, and have significantly different design styles, distribution methods, and game genre selections. Computer gaming and console (video) gaming are NOT the same thing."



  4. #199
    Smith's Minister of War Hero of Algol Kamahl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by axel View Post
    The one that's iffy for me is the Turbografx, it came out a year before the Genesis and at the beginning looked a lot like an NES with more colors. It did get better games with time but if the Supergrafx had caught on I'd consider that more in line with the other 4th gen consoles in terms of RAM, multiple BG/sprite layers, 128 sprites on screen, etc. We only got to see a few games for it but I figure any console that can run a decent port of Ghouls 'n Ghosts at launch can probably handle most 16-bit platformers.
    Yeah the TG-16 is an interesting case, because parallax was such a huge part of the 4th generation but the system lacks native support for it... On the other hand, games like Lords of Thunder, Soldier Blade, Street Fighter 2, Afterburner, Castlevania Rondo of Blood, etc. are clearly well and above 3rd gen capabilities, so the TG-16 cannot be put in that generation.

    It also doesn't make sense to have it be a sole "3.5" gen console when besides parallax it is easily on par with the other 2, and parallax can be worked around for most games. So yeah, 4th gen it is, it just lacked some good euro devs to really show it off.
    This thread needs more... ENGINEERS

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    Raging in the Streets Yharnamresident's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gamevet View Post
    It was supposed to have the same
    CPU clocked @3.5 MHz, 4096 colors, higher resolutions and more ROM. It was considered to be a stepped up Intellivision, until they designed a next gen console.
    Thats good to hear, those are the main things that prevent the Intellivision from being a 3rd gen console.


    Quote Originally Posted by Kamahl View Post
    Yeah the TG-16 is an interesting case, because parallax was such a huge part of the 4th generation but the system lacks native support for it... On the other hand, games like Lords of Thunder, Soldier Blade, Street Fighter 2, Afterburner, Castlevania Rondo of Blood, etc. are clearly well and above 3rd gen capabilities, so the TG-16 cannot be put in that generation.

    It also doesn't make sense to have it be a sole "3.5" gen console when besides parallax it is easily on par with the other 2, and parallax can be worked around for most games. So yeah, 4th gen it is, it just lacked some good euro devs to really show it off.
    Yea people say the system has a 8-bit CPU, only 1 background, low RAM, but from my personal experience of playing it, its a 4th gen console.
    Certified F-Zero GX fanboy

  6. #201
    Death Bringer Raging in the Streets Black_Tiger's Avatar
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    Intellivision Mega Man 2: now full title screen intro with parallax, boss portrait and intro, full Metal Man stage with animated background and post stage power up screen.








    Also Super Mario Bros for Intellivision:


    Quote Originally Posted by year2kill06
    everyone knows nintendo is far way cooler than sega just face it nintendo has more better games and originals

  7. #202
    I DON'T LIKE POKEMON Hero of Algol j_factor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Black_Tiger View Post
    Intellivision Mega Man 2: now full title screen intro with parallax, boss portrait and intro, full Metal Man stage with animated background and post stage power up screen.


    Pretty impressive, but pointing a camera at a TV kinda smooths over some of the flaws and makes it harder to scrutinize.


    You just can't handle my jawusumness responces.

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    Death Bringer Raging in the Streets Black_Tiger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by j_factor View Post
    Pretty impressive, but pointing a camera at a TV kinda smooths over some of the flaws and makes it harder to scrutinize.
    Here is a direct capture of his Castlevania port that I recorded from real hardware:


    Quote Originally Posted by year2kill06
    everyone knows nintendo is far way cooler than sega just face it nintendo has more better games and originals

  9. #204
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    Quote Originally Posted by Black_Tiger View Post
    Here is a direct capture of his Castlevania port that I recorded from real hardware:


    Holy crap! Wow. Serious respect for these ports hahah. This made my day.

  10. #205
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    That Intellivision port of Super Mario has less slowdown than the recent C64 port... very nice. Of course, with tradeoffs.
    It also scrolls smoother and for the most part has better colors than the Super Cassette Vision homebrew port... and it kills it in the sound department.
    This NES to Intellivision ports are very impressive!

  11. #206
    End of line.. Hero of Algol gamevet's Avatar
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    Yeah, but the C64 port of Super Mario Bros is using multilayered sprites to create properly colored Koopas and such. I wonder how much better it would run with single colored sprites.

    That Castlevania isn't too bad looking, though I've never thought of Castlevania as one of the better looking games on the NES. Still, I nice looking port.
    Last edited by gamevet; 01-11-2020 at 05:41 PM.
    A Black Falcon: no, computer games and video games are NOT the same thing. Video games are on consoles, computer games are on PC. The two kinds of games are different, and have significantly different design styles, distribution methods, and game genre selections. Computer gaming and console (video) gaming are NOT the same thing."



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    Raging in the Streets Sik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gamevet View Post
    Yeah, but the C64 port of Super Mario Bros is using multilayered sprites to create properly colored Koopas and such. I wonder how much better it would run with single colored sprites.
    Not any better. Multicolor sprites are a native feature of the C64 and they even take up the same amount of memory bandwidth (hence the doubled pixels, it shares a color between two consecutive bits).

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    End of line.. Hero of Algol gamevet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sik View Post
    Not any better. Multicolor sprites are a native feature of the C64 and they even take up the same amount of memory bandwidth (hence the doubled pixels, it shares a color between two consecutive bits).
    My understanding is that you can place one sprite on top of another to make a multi-colored sprite. There has to be a hit on the CPU when this is happening.

    From what I've seen of that Intellivision demo, it's not putting more than 3 single colored enemies on the screen at any given time.

    The Great Gianna Sisters hack of this game didn't have the slowdown that was witnessed in the recent Super Mario Bros port to the C64.

    Last edited by gamevet; 01-12-2020 at 12:35 AM.
    A Black Falcon: no, computer games and video games are NOT the same thing. Video games are on consoles, computer games are on PC. The two kinds of games are different, and have significantly different design styles, distribution methods, and game genre selections. Computer gaming and console (video) gaming are NOT the same thing."



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    Quote Originally Posted by gamevet View Post
    My understanding is that you can place one sprite on top of another to make a multi-colored sprite. There has to be a hit on the CPU when this is happening.
    I mean, you can always layer sprites, but this isn't needed in the C64's case (it is on other systems). Sprites can be either 1bpp (with 1:1 pixels) or 2bpp (with 2:1 pixels). In the latter case, all 2bpp sprites share two of the colors (the third one is unique per sprite). Mario seems to be using layered sprites (probably to work around the color limitation) but everything else doesn't (all other sprites share white and orange, it seems).

    If you're thinking about C64 in particular, I think you may have been looking at what Mayhem in Monsterland is doing instead: in the case of the player it layers a black 1bpp sprite (the silhouette) on top of a colored 2bpp one. That's done to get a high resolution sprite that's still multicolor.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sik View Post
    I mean, you can always layer sprites, but this isn't needed in the C64's case (it is on other systems). Sprites can be either 1bpp (with 1:1 pixels) or 2bpp (with 2:1 pixels). In the latter case, all 2bpp sprites share two of the colors (the third one is unique per sprite). Mario seems to be using layered sprites (probably to work around the color limitation) but everything else doesn't (all other sprites share white and orange, it seems).

    If you're thinking about C64 in particular, I think you may have been looking at what Mayhem in Monsterland is doing instead: in the case of the player it layers a black 1bpp sprite (the silhouette) on top of a colored 2bpp one. That's done to get a high resolution sprite that's still multicolor.
    Actually I may be a bit mistaken. The C64 could do 4 colors per cell, using it's low-res mode, which it appears Super Mario Bros is running in. In its hi-res mode it can only do 2 colors per cell. You can see that the Goombas are using 4 colors. Mario however, appears to be 2 stacked sprites to draw the character. The C64 has a limit of 8 sprites, so it may be getting pushed to its limits in some of these areas of the game.




    8-bit Guys covers this pretty well.

    A Black Falcon: no, computer games and video games are NOT the same thing. Video games are on consoles, computer games are on PC. The two kinds of games are different, and have significantly different design styles, distribution methods, and game genre selections. Computer gaming and console (video) gaming are NOT the same thing."



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