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Thread: 2nd generation console discussion(Intellivision, Colecovision, 2600, Odyssey 2)

  1. #61
    Smith's Minister of War Hero of Algol Kamahl's Avatar
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    It's a shame commodore didn't make a proper console version of the C64. Depending on how you use it, it looks like it belongs to different generations. A game like Turrican 2 is clearly 3rd gen gameplay wise, but it barely has music, it's low res (160px wide) and the colors look like dog vomit. On the other hand modern homebrew like Quod Init Exit II looks like an MSX 2 game.
    This thread needs more... ENGINEERS

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    Master of Shinobi Thenewguy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yohko16 View Post
    Didn't read the thread, at least not yet, but how it is that some people class the SG-1000 as a third generation console?!! LOL, it doesn't make sense at all. The SG-1000 is basically a console counterpart to the MSX1 and both have a hardware very close to the Colecovision.

    My guess is that some people have such a narrow-minded and/or try hard logic that the SG-1000 being Sega and being released at the same time as the NES automatically means that both are direct competitors but they aren't at all.
    The way the "generations" are set-up on Wikipedia and such is a fairly recent thing, back in the day all the contemporary magazines called the Colecovision and the Atari 5200 the "Third Gen" consoles, or the "next gen" consoles, which would presumably make the NES and Master System the 4th generation and the Genesis and SNES the 5th generation, this to me makes more sense (though there's no perfect way to do this really as early systems were released in sequence quickly, not so much in groups). Its far too late to change now though.

    Basically I think there's a lost generation, which is effectively "The Crash Generation" that never went anywhere in the US
    Last edited by Thenewguy; 10-03-2019 at 04:02 PM.

  3. #63
    Death Bringer Raging in the Streets Black_Tiger's Avatar
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    Here are some more Intellivision works in progress:





    Quote Originally Posted by year2kill06
    everyone knows nintendo is far way cooler than sega just face it nintendo has more better games and originals

  4. #64
    Master of Shinobi Thenewguy's Avatar
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    Heh, maybe the Intellivision should be upgraded to "third gen"

    Was the Intellivision really poorly utilised during its lifespan or are these new games using a lot of advanced tricks? (or is it a bit of both). I was looking through the tech specifications and it looks pretty good to be honest, 2 colour background tiles, 8 versatile sprites, scrolling.

  5. #65
    Death Bringer Raging in the Streets Black_Tiger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thenewguy View Post
    Heh, maybe the Intellivision should be upgraded to "third gen"

    Was the Intellivision really poorly utilised during its lifespan or are these new games using a lot of advanced tricks? (or is it a bit of both). I was looking through the tech specifications and it looks pretty good to be honest, 2 colour background tiles, 8 versatile sprites, scrolling.
    It has a built-in OS (called EXEC) with visual and audio assets which made it easy and fast and minimized rom size. It has a lot of limitation such as framerate capped at 20fps. It was fine early on when 2600 games were still pretty crude and the bar was low.

    Once developers began progamming the hardware directly, all kinds of amazing things were achieved. Activision, Atari and Imagic all had to do it that way, as the EXEC is copyrighted property. This led to the bar being raised rapidly in a short period of time.

    Homebrew carts don't add anything special as far as increasing hardware performance, but they do have things which reduce the amount of required coding. Although there was a lot of impressive homebrew made before the current flashcart and the cart boards made by the same team, the biggest innovation is simply a great easy to use development suite called IntyBasic. People can now get a game up and running in as little as a few days.
    Quote Originally Posted by year2kill06
    everyone knows nintendo is far way cooler than sega just face it nintendo has more better games and originals

  6. #66
    Raging in the Streets Yharnamresident's Avatar
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    FYI, I was eventually planning to dig up this thread(along with my BlueSky Software 7800 thread) once I started focusing on these consoles again. We could settle this generation discussion.
    Certified F-Zero GX fanboy

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    Master of Shinobi Thenewguy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Black_Tiger View Post
    It has a built-in OS (called EXEC) with visual and audio assets which made it easy and fast and minimized rom size. It has a lot of limitation such as framerate capped at 20fps. It was fine early on when 2600 games were still pretty crude and the bar was low.

    Once developers began programming the hardware directly, all kinds of amazing things were achieved. Activision, Atari and Imagic all had to do it that way, as the EXEC is copyrighted property. This led to the bar being raised rapidly in a short period of time.

    Homebrew carts don't add anything special as far as increasing hardware performance, but they do have things which reduce the amount of required coding. Although there was a lot of impressive homebrew made before the current flashcart and the cart boards made by the same team, the biggest innovation is simply a great easy to use development suite called IntyBasic. People can now get a game up and running in as little as a few days.
    They look higher res than the original games, but I guess this is just down to better design decisions, such as using colours that blend well together to make edges look less blocky. And they seem to be using the expanded sprites more, with more sprites overlaid for detail.

    Though I guess the higher cost of cartridge memory probably did mean fewer unique tiles and simpler environments back in the day too.
    Last edited by Thenewguy; 10-07-2019 at 11:52 AM.

  8. #68
    Master of Shinobi Segadream's Avatar
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    Atari2600

    I love how the jump sounds like a
    fart on the 2600 smurf game....
    Yeah I was a 2600 kid....
    Still have 2 Darth Vader Consoles...
    1 is modded to output coax...
    The other is still in its brown suitcase....
    Last edited by Segadream; 10-09-2019 at 04:34 PM.

  9. #69
    Death Bringer Raging in the Streets Black_Tiger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thenewguy View Post
    They look higher res than the original games, but I guess this is just down to better design decisions, such as using colours that blend well together to make edges look less blocky. And they seem to be using the expanded sprites more, with more sprites overlaid for detail.

    Though I guess the higher cost of cartridge memory probably did mean fewer unique tiles and simpler environments back in the day too.
    Early Intellivision games were 4K, which is a measurement of "words" and as I understand it, is smaller than kilobytes. Even during Mattel's run some games reached 16K. The high quality Donkey Kong homebrew "D2K Arcade" is also 16K and its speech samples are run off of the base hardware, not the Intellivoice.

    Bank switching is used for some of the more impressive homebrew, especially the Kai Magazine games, but many just make better use of assets and use modern sensibilities when deciding how much to put onscreen. Bitd publishers were very stingy and demanded devs squeeze games into the tiniest rom size possible.

    The resolution of the background tiles/"cards" is 160 x 96 pixels, but the sprites are double that resolution, which is closer to Mega Drive. But they can also be stretched vertically and horizontally, which is why some games have very sharp and detailed sprites, but others have large chunky ones or a mix of both.

    The Intellivision is good at handling animation by the standards of the early 80's, so many games use background tiles to simulate sprites. Multiplexing isn't common.

    One of the many things that gives younger generations the impression that the Intellivision is slow or underpowered is that most just hit button 1 to start games. For most titles this begins a game in slow motion and/or practice mode. Typically hitting the disc to start will begin a game at full speed, but most of the more technically advanced games continue increasing in speed and action the further you get, even past the point where it's impossible for a human to keep up. Unfirtunately videos of games reaching more intense action are rare online.
    Quote Originally Posted by year2kill06
    everyone knows nintendo is far way cooler than sega just face it nintendo has more better games and originals

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