Quantcast

Page 4 of 4 FirstFirst 1234
Results 46 to 59 of 59

Thread: "SNES has a more powerful CPU and higher resolution in games than the Genesis"

  1. #46
    Japanese Sonic CD FTW!!! Master of Shinobi Ecco's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    2,293
    Rep Power
    37

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Mega Drive Bowlsey View Post
    Love it. It's funny that we came at this conclusion from polar opposite starting points in life, in terms of gaming, and yet ended at the same place. Whether you go for the Sega Mega Drive or the SNES, the bottom line is the same. The 16-bit era was arguably the greatest in gaming history.
    Well I for one, genuinely dislike the art style & odd colors used in seemingly most SNES games. This is the stylistic theme of its colors more than anything. It seems that they wanted to definitely make use of the SNES color palette, but they didn't really know how, so they just used a lot of odd colors instead of normal colors. Super Mario World is a great example of this, Mario's overalls are a strange light blue, the hills in the background are dark blue (I think?), and some of his enemies are purple dragons to stomp on, etc.

    Also the time period had Mario World competing against both Sonic 1 and Sonic 2, at that same time! Somehow, it worked out that way, as Sonic 1 was still popular when Sonic 2 came out, so they were both up against SMW. People seemed to buy a console with that one pack-in title, in mind, more than anything!

    But yeah Sonic 1 and 2 both look amazingly better than SMW, imo. Sonic 1 and 2 have awesome color usage, while SMW has oddball colors like I said.

    And so it seemed a major theme between both consoles. Genesis' more limited palette often meant a nicer selection of colors overall, compared to the SNES equivalent, imo.

    Also SMW seems to show off the difference of resolution used, between both consoles, but it's also exaggerated by the awful thick black lines that surround a lot of the artwork in SMW!

    Sorry but I'm very passionate about such things, lol. I think the NES also had generally great color usage, in general.

  2. #47
    Raging in the Streets Sik's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    3,476
    Rep Power
    63

    Default

    Incidentally the colors topic was being brought up yesterday on Twitter.

    I was reading this:
    https://byuu.net/video/color-emulation

    Turns out that we had emulators using the wrong color ramp all along this time (not sure when they started using a corrected ramp). The difference is huge:



    Ironically, that makes SNES colors look closer to Mega Drive games.

    No contest on Super Mario World though. It was clearly a transition between NES and SNES and it shows, it looks more like an attempt to make SMB3 with more colors but then they didn't know what to even do with them. F-Zero is from the same time and it makes much better use of colors.

  3. #48
    Japanese Sonic CD FTW!!! Master of Shinobi Ecco's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    2,293
    Rep Power
    37

    Default

    Thanks for understanding / agreeing about the odd colors used in SMW and many other SNES games. They were forcing the use of the SNES huge color palette, it seems, but the games didn't turn out beautiful... they just turned out to mostly have oddball colors.

    Actually it shows that the SEGA of early 90's was ahead of Nintendo on art style, the 1st two Sonic games are so nice looking, great color usage, and really SMW is kinda ugly IMO.

    Plus SMW is such a less exciting gameplay than the early Sonic games lol. SEGA was really on point, for a couple years there.

  4. #49
    Japanese Sonic CD FTW!!! Master of Shinobi Ecco's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    2,293
    Rep Power
    37

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Sik View Post
    Incidentally the colors topic was being brought up yesterday on Twitter.

    I was reading this:
    https://byuu.net/video/color-emulation

    Turns out that we had emulators using the wrong color ramp all along this time (not sure when they started using a corrected ramp). The difference is huge:



    Ironically, that makes SNES colors look closer to Mega Drive games.

    No contest on Super Mario World though. It was clearly a transition between NES and SNES and it shows, it looks more like an attempt to make SMB3 with more colors but then they didn't know what to even do with them. F-Zero is from the same time and it makes much better use of colors.
    Re: emulators: That's interesting, though I still dislike Link's pink hair honestly, lol. It's probably something that makes more sense in Japanese artwork or something? Why in the world would they make his hair pink lol.

    As a great example of what I do like, is the original Zelda 1 on NES. I haven't played for years but I remember that it uses great earthy colors, in general. Browns, greens, blue, etc. Which seemed what NES was good at.

    So SNES lost the earthy color scheme, when SNES is emphasizing odd colors all the time... I could just never quite love the graphics in SMW, for example.

    It's too bad, too, because with a better artistic direction, the SNES could have used all those colors to emphasize more beautiful graphics, somehow, if they had just had a better art direction...

  5. #50
    Raging in the Streets Sik's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    3,476
    Rep Power
    63

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ecco View Post
    Actually it shows that the SEGA of early 90's was ahead of Nintendo on art style, the 1st two Sonic games are so nice looking, great color usage, and really SMW is kinda ugly IMO.
    ‘On the first day after the Nintendo press conference, a reporter from a major national magazine came over to me and said, “The Super Nintendo has 32,768 colours – you only have 512. What are you going to do about it?” I just got him to follow me to our booth, showed him Sonic and Mario running side by side and said, “Okay, which one has the most colours? It’s not how many colours you have, it’s what you do with them.” The reporter just walked away.’
    Found the quote here but I swear I had read it in a Sega-16 article before. Am I misremembering?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ecco View Post
    Plus SMW is such a less exciting gameplay than the early Sonic games lol. SEGA was really on point, for a couple years there.
    Another one I'm struggling to find the source @_@ But I recall that after Michael Katz got kicked out because he rejected Sonic at all costs, Tom Kalinske took over the CEO role and he was also skeptical of Sonic, but unlike Katz he actually decided to request some market research first, and the outcome was that Sonic was more popular than Mario with 80% of the kids to whom they showed the game (or something like that), which pretty much settled the matter about whether to continue with Sonic :​P

  6. #51
    Mega Driver Hedgehog-in-TrainingWCPO Agent Gryson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2016
    Posts
    975
    Rep Power
    36

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Sik View Post
    Another one I'm struggling to find the source @_@ But I recall that after Michael Katz got kicked out because he rejected Sonic at all costs, Tom Kalinske took over the CEO role and he was also skeptical of Sonic, but unlike Katz he actually decided to request some market research first, and the outcome was that Sonic was more popular than Mario with 80% of the kids to whom they showed the game (or something like that), which pretty much settled the matter about whether to continue with Sonic :​P
    I don't recall reading that. Kalinske didn't enter the picture until Sonic was well into development, though. As I recall, Al Nilsen was very vocal in his support of Sonic after playing the demo and realizing how great the gameplay was. Kalinske's main thing with Sonic was making it the pack-in title (and claiming to have made a bunch of changes to Sonic's design [such as adding Sonic's red shoes!] which were clearly implemented before he began working at Sega, but let's not go there...).

  7. #52
    Raging in the Streets Sik's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    3,476
    Rep Power
    63

    Default

    The problem was that Katz kept insisting that Sonic wouldn't sell in the West so he got the boot in response (while Sonic Team kept working on it anyway). Kalinske wasn't sure about Sonic at first too but at least he seemed to handle it better.

  8. #53
    Mega Driver Hedgehog-in-TrainingWCPO Agent Gryson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2016
    Posts
    975
    Rep Power
    36

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Sik View Post
    The problem was that Katz kept insisting that Sonic wouldn't sell in the West so he got the boot in response (while Sonic Team kept working on it anyway). Kalinske wasn't sure about Sonic at first too but at least he seemed to handle it better.
    I found the reference you're thinking of - it's on p. 23 of MD Collected Works if you have it.

    Basically, people at SOA such as Al Nilsen were convinced that Sonic was great, but Kalinske wanted to be sure, so Nilsen did some playtesting around the country and said that 80% of the kids preferred Sonic over Mario. It doesn't really make it out that Kalinske was skeptical of Sonic; more that he just wanted some evidence that they weren't going to make fools of themselves by going big with it.

  9. #54
    End of line.. Hero of Algol gamevet's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Dallas, Texas
    Posts
    8,247
    Rep Power
    117

    Default

    No contest on Super Mario World though. It was clearly a transition between NES and SNES and it shows, it looks more like an attempt to make SMB3 with more colors but then they didn't know what to even do with them. F-Zero is from the same time and it makes much better use of colors.
    I much prefer Super Mario Bros. 3, but you're not giving enough credit to some of the graphics and sound effects that Super Mario World brings. The Ghost houses come to mind.
    A Black Falcon: no, computer games and video games are NOT the same thing. Video games are on consoles, computer games are on PC. The two kinds of games are different, and have significantly different design styles, distribution methods, and game genre selections. Computer gaming and console (video) gaming are NOT the same thing."



  10. #55
    Outrunner EPSYLON EAGLE's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    657
    Rep Power
    16

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Sik View Post
    Nope. At most it limits how you can use the layers, but that's still entirely on the video hardware side.

    The slow down probably comes from other issues (on top of the game probably already being on the limit), e.g. usually those translucency effects are combined with window clipping to give it a shape, which involves changing the shape of the windows every line. While the hardware can use DMA to automatically write these values every line, the CPU still has to compute what those values should be in the first place. If the computations are not optimized, that can drag down the game as a whole.

    Thanks Sik!


    One last question.

    So does the Genesis CPU, besides having to deal with tasks usually not supported by VDP, like sprite scaling, have practically an additional 25% screen area to perform sprite colisions calculations?

  11. #56
    8 & 16 bit guy Outrunner Bloodreign's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Louisiana
    Age
    44
    Posts
    628
    Rep Power
    23

    Default

    If you want to see a Genesis game that pops with colors, look no further than the Magical Taruruto-kun game released for the system in Japan. That game seems to use a lot of different colors, and use them well.

  12. #57
    Raging in the Streets Yharnamresident's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    British Columbia
    Posts
    3,479
    Rep Power
    58

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Sik View Post
    The problem was that Katz kept insisting that Sonic wouldn't sell in the West so he got the boot in response (while Sonic Team kept working on it anyway). Kalinske wasn't sure about Sonic at first too but at least he seemed to handle it better.
    Thats nothing, Peter Moore said that he literally had to tell Yuji Naka to "fuck off" when wouldn't believe what he was saying. Yuji's translator asked "do you really want me to say that?", and Peter said yes.
    Certified F-Zero GX fanboy

  13. #58
    Japanese Sonic CD FTW!!! Master of Shinobi Ecco's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    2,293
    Rep Power
    37

    Question

    Quote Originally Posted by Yharnamresident View Post
    Thats nothing, Peter Moore said that he literally had to tell Yuji Naka to "fuck off" when wouldn't believe what he was saying. Yuji's translator asked "do you really want me to say that?", and Peter said yes.
    Oh no, lol. What did Yuji Naka do in response?

  14. #59
    End of line.. Hero of Algol gamevet's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Dallas, Texas
    Posts
    8,247
    Rep Power
    117

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ecco View Post
    Re: emulators: That's interesting, though I still dislike Link's pink hair honestly, lol. It's probably something that makes more sense in Japanese artwork or something? Why in the world would they make his hair pink lol.

    As a great example of what I do like, is the original Zelda 1 on NES. I haven't played for years but I remember that it uses great earthy colors, in general. Browns, greens, blue, etc. Which seemed what NES was good at.

    So SNES lost the earthy color scheme, when SNES is emphasizing odd colors all the time... I could just never quite love the graphics in SMW, for example.

    It's too bad, too, because with a better artistic direction, the SNES could have used all those colors to emphasize more beautiful graphics, somehow, if they had just had a better art direction...
    I liked that Nintendo was exploring a much larger color range, because we’d been seeing the same damned basic colors going back to the early 8-Bit era. And as much as I liked the Genesis, when I got it, I was still rather disappointed with its color range, after owning the Amiga 500 before it. Shadow of the Beast on Genesis was such a horrible port, with the main character going from being gray, with a slight purple tint, to a solid blob of dark purple. The sequel used a better choice of colors.
    A Black Falcon: no, computer games and video games are NOT the same thing. Video games are on consoles, computer games are on PC. The two kinds of games are different, and have significantly different design styles, distribution methods, and game genre selections. Computer gaming and console (video) gaming are NOT the same thing."



Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •