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Thread: Was the N64 strategy the best way for Sega to return to the market? (Hypothetically)

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    ESWAT Veteran Team Andromeda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BonusKun View Post

    @TA: Yes you're right the 3DS had a rough start but in the end they surpassed that later on and ended up making a ton of money off that handheld. Shit, Everytime a new Poke'mon was released it was the same as printing money for them.
    I was only addressing a point on how Nintendo had 'never' sold a system at a loss, that's all. When it comes to cash flow SEGA was utterly a shambles both in the West and Japan with crazy spends, but I guess that's why most of us loved SEGA.
    They really did want Nintendo don't
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    Road Rasher Loggo's Avatar
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    As gamevet already pointed out, PS5 and Xbox 4 will probably receive mid-gen upgrades a couple of years after launch. SEGA's hypothetical console would just be late to the party and serve no purpose whatsoever.

    In any case, though, the very idea of going head to head with giant conglomerates like Sony and Microsoft makes zero sense. SEGA, just like Nintendo, cannot compete on these terms. SEGA can't afford to sell their hardware at a loss. They can't afford to engage in bid wars and spend millions of dollars just to obtain the "exclusive marketing rights" for the next Call of Duty/FIFA/Assassin's Creed or whatever. They have neither the know-how nor the resources to be competitive in terms of online infrastructure and services. SEGA has also zero mindshare among the modern console audience that makes PlayStation and Xbox so successful. They would literally have to "buy" their way into the market by spending a massive amount of money, just like Microsoft did when they decided to enter the industry. Not even companies like Samsung are willing to do that. Hell, there's a reason why we haven't seen a new player entering the "traditional console market" since the original Xbox.

    Consoles will become obsolete in a few years anyway. For better or worse, a streaming-based future is inevitable.
    Last edited by Loggo; 10-12-2019 at 05:30 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Loggo View Post

    Consoles will become obsolete in a few years anyway. For better or worse, a streaming-based future is inevitable.
    That's decades away IMO. The infrastructure just isn't in place at the moment.
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  4. #19
    Underground Sega Nut BonusKun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Team Andromeda View Post
    I was only addressing a point on how Nintendo had 'never' sold a system at a loss, that's all. When it comes to cash flow SEGA was utterly a shambles both in the West and Japan with crazy spends, but I guess that's why most of us loved SEGA.
    They really did want Nintendo don't
    Well I'll agree with you for the most part on that. Let's be real about it tho, I think almost all console guys like Sony, Microsoft and even Nintendo always sold consoles as a loss. They're no different from SEGA in that aspect. If anything they made money thru software sales more then anything.
    05/05/15

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    The Future Is Yesterday Hedgehog-in-TrainingRaging in the Streets SegataS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BonusKun View Post
    Well I'll agree with you for the most part on that. Let's be real about it tho, I think almost all console guys like Sony, Microsoft and even Nintendo always sold consoles as a loss. They're no different from SEGA in that aspect. If anything they made money thru software sales more then anything.
    No, not really. Only Wii U did they hit red and not regularly either. Mostly black. Everything else made a profit. Gamecube made a profit from day 1. N64 did. Sony took heavy losses with PS3. MS lost billions on the original Xbox. 360 was mainly losing money because of RROD. Wii was selling at a $50 profit each system sold in the beginning. Nintendo was never really about selling at a loss. DS sacrificed the power to be profitable. 3DS first year and Wii U were the only real system they hit a loss on. Financials for Switch they have been making a profit since day 1. That's the reason Nintendo is in such good financial shape. They don't really take losses. If they did they would be where SEGA is.



    Life!? ... What console is that on?

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    The Future Is Yesterday Hedgehog-in-TrainingRaging in the Streets SegataS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Team Andromeda View Post
    That's decades away IMO. The infrastructure just isn't in place at the moment.
    It's not just that but in the US we have data caps and Stadia will burn through someones monthly data cap in a couple of days even if they have the speeds.



    Life!? ... What console is that on?

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    Hedgehog-in-Training Hedgehog-in-TrainingWildside Expert Virtua Hunter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BonusKun View Post
    The difference in this is Nintendo was smart with their money even with the failed systems like the Virtual Boy and the Wii U. Nintendo right now could bleed money for many years and never go out of business. SEGA can't.

    @TA: Yes you're right the 3DS had a rough start but in the end they surpassed that later on and ended up making a ton of money off that handheld. Shit, Everytime a new Poke'mon was released it was the same as printing money for them. Nintendo has an iron grip on their IPs so yeah they know how to keep their coffers full.
    Yes, Nintendo always had a "backup" to save them from consoles failures, like Pokemon, their handheld, even toys during the Wiiu era lol.

    Sega at the time had only the arcades. Today is a little different, Sega has a giant like Sammy as backup, they have hands in lots more business than before, (pachinko, toys, animations, even resorts and casino), a new console is not something impossible (a cheap console like Switch of course, not something like PS4 or XboxOne).

    They even partially returned to hardware with Mega Drive Mini without many issues (releasing a miniature toy like this is a joke for a giant like SegaSammy).

    Especially if Sony and MS will go toward the digital/streaming future, it means that the traditional videogame market will become empty, that would be the perfect chance for both Nintendo and Sega...

    The main obstacle is the "low risks - low efforts" mentality of current Sega (something that comes from Sammy).
    Last edited by Virtua Hunter; 10-12-2019 at 08:14 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SegataS View Post
    It's not just that but in the US we have data caps and Stadia will burn through someones monthly data cap in a couple of days even if they have the speeds.
    I'm amazed that goes on in the USA. In the UK we've unlimited firbe for years now.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Virtua Hunter View Post
    Yes, Nintendo always had a "backup" to save them from consoles failures, like Pokemon, their handheld, even toys during the Wiiu era lol.
    Nintendo had a 3 $billion war chest after the NES, never mind what happened with the SNES and GameBoy.
    SEGA was hit hard in the 90's with lack of market share in the consoles and in 98 its AM posted a loss due to the high cost and low take-up of Model 3 boards.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BonusKun View Post
    Well I'll agree with you for the most part on that. Let's be real about it tho, I think almost all console guys like Sony, Microsoft and even Nintendo always sold consoles as a loss. They're no different from SEGA in that aspect. If anything they made money thru software sales more then anything.
    No not Nintendo. Sure for the 1st Production run, every console is sold at a loss, until the line gets up and running. But the 3DS was the only time Nintendo sold hardware at a loss (though yes we'll never really know the cost price of any system)
    I very much doubt the Master or the Mega Drive were ever sold at a loss either, same for the PC Eng. I think it was when we entered the RISC era and consoles need double speed drives, huge amounts of RAM and every advanced even custom silicon for the CPU and GPU's that costs came so much, some looked to take a hit, rather than pass it on the consumer and look to make it up in software. I read somewhere than this gen MS and SONY have been making a profit of each unit of Hardware sold. Looks like SONY and MS are going to scrap that for the next-gen mind and come out with monster systems and sell them at a loss LOL

    SEGA were crazy mind, Despite Nintendo making more profits SEGA Europe PR was double to that of Nintendo in Europe. I read in SEGA Mag that the PR budget for Sonic3 alone was over $30 million. SEGA was far more loss with its cash
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    Hedgehog-in-Training Hedgehog-in-TrainingWildside Expert Virtua Hunter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Team Andromeda View Post
    Nintendo had a 3 $billion war chest after the NES, never mind what happened with the SNES and GameBoy.
    SEGA was hit hard in the 90's with lack of market share in the consoles and in 98 its AM posted a loss due to the high cost and low take-up of Model 3 boards.
    They probably have more cash at hand even than Playstation and Xbox departments lol.
    But you don't need that kind of ludicrous money to launch a console though, remember that Sega with all it's economic troubles after the 32bit era, achieved to launch the Dreamcast, organize the best internal teams setup ever in the industry (something that even Nintendo with all its talents still can't achieve) and produce some of the best games aver made, basically just using crumbs, if it wasn't for the PS2 craze it would have been a very succesful console.

    The difficult part is to mantain the console, not to produce the hardware, they probably know this too well and that's why they don't even try to re-enter the business.
    Problem is Sega games were tied to the hardware (console and arcade), so we will never see again the Sega real excellence as long as they remain a simple third party developer.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BonusKun View Post
    The difference in this is Nintendo was smart with their money even with the failed systems like the Virtual Boy and the Wii U. Nintendo right now could bleed money for many years and never go out of business. SEGA can't.

    .
    Sega has always been very extravagant with high spending, but nothing was more damaging to it than the subsidy, this was normal market practice, but on both Saturn and Dreamcast for every unit sold Sega lost money. as I look at it N64 I see what Sega should have done, the console made a lot of profit, had good games.

    The future has shown that Nintendo was right, it is no use making perfect technology using subsidy, if something goes wrong due to some competitor marketing, piracy or some factor preventing the machine from selling in a timely manner, it will flop

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    Quote Originally Posted by Virtua Hunter View Post
    remember that Sega with all it's economic troubles after the 32bit era, achieved to launch the Dreamcast, organize the best internal teams setup ever in the industry (something that even Nintendo with all its talents still can't achieve) and produce some of the best games aver made, basically just using crumbs, if it wasn't for the PS2 craze it would have been a very succesful console.

    The difficult part is to mantain the console, not to produce the hardware, they probably know this too well and that's why they don't even try to re-enter the business.
    Problem is Sega games were tied to the hardware (console and arcade), so we will never see again the Sega real excellence as long as they remain a simple third party developer.
    Very good argument. Sega with serious financial problems brought us the Dreamcast. Currently they are a much more balanced company, a better company IMO. but they have no one to advise them on this way, it has never been easier to come back and maintain, the xbox brand is weakened, a breeze defeats them. If anyone reads this topic and has contacts on Sega, I am willing to convey my full point of view to them. This forum is influential maybe there is someone with contacts on Sega. : D

    but they don't take advice, these companies are very afraid of lawsuits and things like that, older fans are dying one by one, and I find that very unfair, because fans are the reason for everything.
    Last edited by SegaAMD; 10-12-2019 at 12:30 PM.

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    Mega Driver Hedgehog-in-TrainingWCPO Agent Gryson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SegaAMD View Post
    The future has shown that Nintendo was right
    Still not sure how Nintendo getting trounced by Sony shows that Nintendo was right. Nintendo releasing the N64 two years after the PlayStation allowed Sony to firmly establish itself in the market and court all of the 3rd parties.

    The N64 had a lower manufacture cost simply because it did not include a CD-ROM drive (a $50-$100 cost, depending on the year in question). In turn, N64 games cost $60-$70 at launch compared to the PlayStation's <$50. And 3rd parties were very turned off by the lack of CD-ROM drive. So even though the N64 had a low manufacture cost, the ultimate market share cost was much higher.

    From the NES to the Game Cube, Nintendo's market share continuously plummeted. They did not respond well to competition first from Sega, and then from Sony. They did well in the handheld market, and the Wii was a positive (although hardware sales are deceptive here since as I recall software sales were weak).

    If you're looking for a model of what Sega should have done, then the answer is obviously SONY. But then, they wouldn't have been Sega, so what's the point.

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    Antiquing Hedgehog Lord QuickSciFi's Avatar
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    I've moved from the PS4 to the Switch as of late. My PS4 was my entertainment station, and before that, the PS3. I played a lot of games in those two, but I also used it, mainly, for Netflix, Hulu, Amazon Video and Youtube. My TV alone does all those things, so my PS4 is a sitting stand for my Switch dock now. It's sooo much easier to game on the Switch. It serves its purpose flawlessly. And I understand perfectly why it doesn't have Netflix. It is supposed to be a gaming system, period.

    My girlfriend and I enjoy sitting back on the couch with our respective Switches in handheld mode while having some program play in the background. Ni No Kuni: Wrath of the White Witch is already out on it, arguably the best RPG of its generation and an exclusive one at the time. We've enjoyed the demo for Ori and the Blind Forest on it, another exclusive at the time. Not to mention a ton of other "exclusives" from before that have made their way to the system or soon will. Skyrim is a must have. Also Doom 2016. The list goes on and on. And the obvious Breath of the Wild, which IMO is the best game ever made. And now that the Witcher 3 is coming out on it as well, the one game that single-handedly turned the public's eye to the 8th gen of console gaming, there is no doubt the Nintendo Switch is now also the best video game system ever made.

    So that being said, I don't even think Sega, or any other newcomer next gen, should have to worry about processing power. Many of us here would definitely go for a new Sega console, myself included. But I assume the question is veered more toward the general populace...

    So... Rather than a standalone console, which we here at sega-16 have been hailing for since the memory of the Neptune enticed us, I'd propose a much better, much easier format: a handheld.

    Think Game Gear 2, meets Nomad 2 (which was essentially a "Switch") meets [insert purpose for all those handheld clones that had TV connection we've seen thus far]. If there is any gaming company out there that could best bypass Nintendo's proprietary clench is Sega. They've done it before, and they succeeded.

    What we need is a new Sega handheld. The market is currently without competition whatsoever. The time is now. And you bet your ass it will play on TV if one is made.

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